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Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

forbes.com

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Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#31

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

Victerius wrote: post #7

Can a company make an offer outside its stated range? E.g. What if Microsoft has a job opening with a range of $110k - $170k, and the candidate they selected used to make $180k and would like $200k? Will Microsoft offer him or her the 200k they seek or offer 170k and lose their candidate? If salary ranges can be bypassed, then they are not really useful, and if they can't, by law, companies could skirt the law by off…

> E.g. What if Microsoft has a job opening with a range of $110k - $170k, and the candidate they selected used to make $180k and would like $200k? Will Microsoft offer him or her the 200k they seek or offer 170k and lose their candidate?

They can also negotiate seniority/level. So if they really wanted that person, and they were originally planning on hiring as a Level N Engineer, they could negotiate to hire at a Level N+1 engineer that has the desired salary.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#32

Post by BlargMcLarg »

logicalmonster wrote: post #22

Just to play Devil's Advocate: being explicit about salaries is the kind of practice that sounds amazingly good on the surface, but might have some unintended real-world consequences. For instance, whereas before when salaries weren't explicit, a weaker candidate with some good qualities who was on the bubble for consideration might be able to get a job if the salary was more favorable than the company was initially…

>they might be unemployable in that field and not gain the experience needed to progress

This is why we have different types of skill levels. If you can't hire the person as a medior but you have a junior position open, surely you can tell them with the associated benefits. If its a problem, surely you can justify given the requirements.

Hiding information only to waste people's time upfront isn't helpful when society expects job searching to a part-time job on the side of another job. Maybe this is too aggressive a measure, but getting "competitive" as an answer sure isn't helpful either.

>And stronger candidates who are perfect fits and world-class performers might be lost for a lot of companies because the company has the excuse of a pre-defined salary range.

I doubt you're going to pass a great candidate because they exceed your mentioned range when internal budget can still be stretched. At worst you could argue the high earners aren't going to pick your job because your range is too low, which can be solved by simply adjusting your range. If budget can't be stretched, odds are you weren't going to hire them anyway.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#33

Post by stardude900 »

logicalmonster wrote: post #22

Just to play Devil's Advocate: being explicit about salaries is the kind of practice that sounds amazingly good on the surface, but might have some unintended real-world consequences. For instance, whereas before when salaries weren't explicit, a weaker candidate with some good qualities who was on the bubble for consideration might be able to get a job if the salary was more favorable than the company was initially…

I can only speak for when I was a hiring manager and we called them bands, but it was essentially the same thing. We attached a band to every job posting and we would occasionally interview promising candidates and offer them the top end of a lower band or we'd offer them a more junior position with a promise of an early promotion review. Some took it, some didn't.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#36

Post by pulse7 »

chrismeller wrote: post #21
epwr wrote: post #8

> Microsoft said it would disclose salary ranges in all internal and external U.S. job postings no later than January 2023. That date is when Washington state, where Microsoft’s headquarters are located, will start requiring employers with at least 15 employees to disclose salary ranges for each position. In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law.

“Software Engineer I - 40-250k”

"Any Job ... 0-1B"

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#37

Post by JumpCrisscross »

hef19898 wrote: post #19
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents? Washington state can't regulate how Microsoft hires people in Texas. Microsoft Corp. isn't even a Washington legal entity. (EDIT: Never mind, I stand corrected [1]. In any case, the broader point stands. Delaware doesn't get to regulate how its entities hire outside Delaware. This is well-settled employment/interstate commerce law.) [1] https://www.s…

If you do that only for jobs in Washington state it is only a question of time until the first discrimibation law suites are filed. Plus it is easy good press.

> you do that only for jobs in Washington state it is only a question of time until the first discrimibation law suites are filed

Discriminating based on an employee's state of residence is totally fine. Californians get different disclosures and rights compared with say Nevadans. Nevadans can't sue for those benefits; they're not entitled to them.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#38

Post by mobiuscog »

potamic wrote: post #2

I wonder why only the US. If they believe pay transparency is the right way forward, they should do it globally. Surely there's no legal hurdles in posting pay ranges for any country.

They don't believe pay transparency is the way forward - they're just fending off some US laws and trying to gain kudos for doing so.

As you mention, if they really wanted to be transparent, it would be global, but I doubt they want to expose those differences.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#39

Post by pjbeam »

logicalmonster wrote: post #22

Just to play Devil's Advocate: being explicit about salaries is the kind of practice that sounds amazingly good on the surface, but might have some unintended real-world consequences. For instance, whereas before when salaries weren't explicit, a weaker candidate with some good qualities who was on the bubble for consideration might be able to get a job if the salary was more favorable than the company was initially…

Salary is just one component of total comp, and in my (tech) experience not generally the biggest one.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#40

Post by indymike »

Job posts with a pay rate get about 28% more applications than those without. Some job boards that syndicate jobs from other job boards will insert an "estimated salary" or "industry salary" just to get more clicks if you don't include a salary.

Source: my company does recruitment advertising for many other companies, and including salary is something we coach our customers to do.

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