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Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

getpunchd.com

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Re: Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

#31

Post by datums »

ben1040 wrote: post #24
dpark wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the punch is based on scanning a QR code? Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is really broken. It sounds like someone could write a counterfeit app that scans the QR code, records the current location, and resubmits every minute, recording tons of punches that never actually happened. They should do it the other way. Your phone should pop up a unque code for the cashier to scan. I guess that makes the barrier to en…

So the punch is based on scanning a QR code? That's correct. The business has a card with a QR code printed on it that you scan to get a "punch." This is part of the value proposition for the merchants, I guess - they don't need a phone or device of their own at all, they just need to print a few things. The tradeoff is maybe the system is easier to game for the tiny percent that is technically inclined enough to try…

Perka closes that loop hole by having the person behind the counter verify your visit using the app as a merchant.

http://getperka.com/foryourbusiness/merchantfaq.html

Re: Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

#33

Post by buro9 »

fomojola wrote: post #15
knodi wrote: post #10

Can't I just take a picture of the QR code and scan it as many time as I want, without purchasing anything?

From their page: "Patent-pending technology guarantees the integrity of your loyalty program. GPS triangulation, velocity analysis, and statistical variation keep things secure." Velocity analysis. Sounds complicated. Wonder how well it actually works.

Hard to know what to say here, but we (Yell Labs) have built what appears to be the exact same solution to this problem that punchd have.

As far as I can tell we started at around the same time but from London, UK. And we have our own patent applications (that I was unhappy about submitting because I don't agree that they were non-obvious, and that punchd did the same thing elsewhere at the same time is evidence of that).

Anyhow... how do we, with what appears to be exactly the same solution, handle security?

Signals, lots of them. What sensors does the phone have? Great, grab it all and start comparing for deviations and against thresholds. When you have enough data start machine learning against it.

With velocity, look at the X,Y,Z of the gravity sensor and see if the numbers since the last QR scan indicate that you're moving at beyond a certain G... clearly scanning a QR code shouldn't require speed.

Then you've got things like, if you scanned in London, could you scan in Birmingham 5 minutes later? What's the likely speed between places.

Did a scan happen at 2am? The rest of the data suggests that they're closed at that hour.

And more subtle ones: If all of the compass readings for a specific branch point within a 15 degree range... you can actually know that they have a single cashpoint and the customer is on the South side of it.

As for whether they work, they're very effective against obviously fake stuff, and then together with other signals create a reasonably high confidence of finding the extremely doubtful stuff. You really want to handle this delicately as the thing you don't want to do is make it really uncomfortable for the small business owner if he suspects someone of fraud... so you want to catch them and deduct the fake points before they enter the shop, but confidently enough that you don't hurt a genuine customer at all.

It's really easy to sit down and create a whole load of tests against a new scan just by looking at a wealth of data from old scans.

I hope they haven't patented that aspect, it's pretty damn obvious.

Re: Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

#34

Post by bwooce »

fomojola wrote: post #15
knodi wrote: post #10

Can't I just take a picture of the QR code and scan it as many time as I want, without purchasing anything?

From their page: "Patent-pending technology guarantees the integrity of your loyalty program. GPS triangulation, velocity analysis, and statistical variation keep things secure." Velocity analysis. Sounds complicated. Wonder how well it actually works.

Not really - standard security used by credit cards and calling cards forever. If you punched in a location A and then tried location B which are greater than (time difference * max speed per hour) miles difference then it will red flag it. Fails in the presence of supersonic flight ;)

Re: Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

#36

Post by marcamillion »

aresant wrote: post #23

Punchd raised ~$50k at "500 Startups" demo day, then three months later was bought by Google (July of this year). That is called how damn fast it is to get noticed and bought if you execute brilliantly in a big market. And it only looks better now than it did. It's a beautiful, elegant way of digitizing a marketing tactic that everybody already knows and understands. The little paper signs "Buy _____ and get _____" a…

Ahh...that makes sense...was wondering how comes Google was charging.

Was about to say...wow...I think that would be the first time I have ever seen Google charge explicitly for a SaaS service like this. Aside from Ad-powered things of course.

Re: Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

#37

Post by minikomi »

ryan-allen wrote: post #32
knodi wrote: post #10

Can't I just take a picture of the QR code and scan it as many time as I want, without purchasing anything?

They could just print a new QR code every day and keep it right at the counter. Or print a new one how ever often they want.

Or there's a vendor side to the app - which displays the QR code on the screen of an ipad or iphone. Can change as often as you like, even every time!

Re: Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

#39

Post by cloudwalking »

buro9 wrote: post #33
fomojola wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their page: "Patent-pending technology guarantees the integrity of your loyalty program. GPS triangulation, velocity analysis, and statistical variation keep things secure." Velocity analysis. Sounds complicated. Wonder how well it actually works.

Hard to know what to say here, but we (Yell Labs) have built what appears to be the exact same solution to this problem that punchd have. As far as I can tell we started at around the same time but from London, UK. And we have our own patent applications (that I was unhappy about submitting because I don't agree that they were non-obvious, and that punchd did the same thing elsewhere at the same time is evidence of t…

We are using a lot of signals too. GPS is the only one we talk about :)

You're right, it is a very delicate line between catching as many cheaters as possible while avoiding false-positives. We like to err on the side of false-negatives as much as possible.

Re: Punchd - A Loyalty Program (from Google)

#40

Post by troymc »

coderdude wrote: post #8

Did anyone notice this little Apple logo yelling at the Android logo at the bottom of the page? http://getpunchd.com/img/june/idiots.png ( http://i.imgur.com/sy7QX.png ) It's called idiots.png. Is this illustrating that it's stupid to bicker about your mobile platform? Or is it calling Apple users idiots (it does look like the Apple character is yelling about something and Android guy just looks like he's thinking "w…

The apple isn't yelling. It's the Apple logo, which has a bite out of the side.
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