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Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

nasa.gov

31–40 of 60 posts

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#31
post #5
post #3

In case anybody was wondering "Why is the frame rate so lousy?" the answer is that the probe only has about 325 bits per second of downlink on average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(spacecraft)

Would it be possible to extrapolate frames in between to give one smooth flyover?

Nitpick: you interpolate data between two known points (frames), and extrapolate beyond the first or last known datapoint.

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#32
post #3

In case anybody was wondering "Why is the frame rate so lousy?" the answer is that the probe only has about 325 bits per second of downlink on average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(spacecraft)

What's the limiting factor on bandwidth constraints for probes like this? Is it the power of the probe? Is it the distance from earth?

I wonder if you could build a mesh network of satellites/probes out farther into the solar system to get better connectivity for projects like this.

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#33
post #9
post #4

210,000 kilometers per hour. Almost 60km/40mi per second. Amazing speed when you think about it. Wonder if there would be any time dilation noticable if the craft ever gets captured and brought back to earth.

Relativistic effects are measurable with accurate enough clocks in earth satellites (or even just taking a clock to a mountain) and correction is necessary in systems with finicky time requirements like GPS. Incidentally, the relative speed you can napkin math estimate - an object in orbit flying that close to the planet is going to have escape-velocity-ish speed. It's around 60km/sec for Jupiter.

By now I think they managed to measure relativistic effects of clocks that are a few milimeters apart in terms of distance from earths gravitational center.

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#34
post #20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relativistic effects are measurable with accurate enough clocks in earth satellites (or even just taking a clock to a mountain) and correction is necessary in systems with finicky time requirements like GPS. Incidentally, the relative speed you can napkin math estimate - an object in orbit flying that close to the planet is going to have escape-velocity-ish speed. It's around 60km/sec for Jupiter.

> taking a clock to a mountain http://www.leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/

They also did the First Atomic Clock Wristwatch...

http://leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#35
post #20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relativistic effects are measurable with accurate enough clocks in earth satellites (or even just taking a clock to a mountain) and correction is necessary in systems with finicky time requirements like GPS. Incidentally, the relative speed you can napkin math estimate - an object in orbit flying that close to the planet is going to have escape-velocity-ish speed. It's around 60km/sec for Jupiter.

> taking a clock to a mountain http://www.leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/

Fantastic! Has this been shared on HN before?

> We would come back about 20 ns older compared to her [the wife who stayed behind].

Or, the other way to look at it (since this is relativity after all), is that she would become 20 ns younger than us upon our return. Note to husbands: this could be a useful gift idea for your wife.

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#36
post #33
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relativistic effects are measurable with accurate enough clocks in earth satellites (or even just taking a clock to a mountain) and correction is necessary in systems with finicky time requirements like GPS. Incidentally, the relative speed you can napkin math estimate - an object in orbit flying that close to the planet is going to have escape-velocity-ish speed. It's around 60km/sec for Jupiter.

By now I think they managed to measure relativistic effects of clocks that are a few milimeters apart in terms of distance from earths gravitational center.

Sufficiently clever experimentalists also pulled this off in about 20 meters in 1959, the clever bit being ditching the clocks entirely:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound%E2%80%93Rebka_experiment

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a point of reference, our solar system orbits our galaxy at approximately 4 times that speed at 828 megameters per hour, so 210 megameters per second isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things...

Kilometer is the largest SI-prefixed variation of meter that is commonly used (among physicists that I know). I would rather suggest that you use scientific notation if you do not want to deal with large numbers of kilometers.

We don't stop at millimeters or kilowatt, so there is really no reason to stop at kilometer when megameter is more appropriate.

Scientific notation is also fine, but "210 megameter" is in my opinion easier to read than "2.1 * 10^8 meters", especially for the casual reader.

So while I respectfully make note of your feedback, I strongly disagree and stand by my choice of units. :)

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#38
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taking a clock to a mountain http://www.leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/

Fantastic! Has this been shared on HN before? > We would come back about 20 ns older compared to her [the wife who stayed behind]. ≥ Or, the other way to look at it (since this is relativity after all), is that she would become 20 ns younger than us upon our return. Note to husbands: this could be a useful gift idea for your wife.

It has, in the HN equivalent of the Archean eon

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=598090

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#39
post #4

210,000 kilometers per hour. Almost 60km/40mi per second. Amazing speed when you think about it. Wonder if there would be any time dilation noticable if the craft ever gets captured and brought back to earth.

As a point of reference, our solar system orbits our galaxy at approximately 4 times that speed at 828 megameters per hour, so 210 megameters per second isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things...

> 210 megameters per second

Oops, megameters per hour.

210 Mm/s is a very* big deal, with the speed of light being around 299 Mm/s.

Re: Juno skims the cloud tops of Jupiter

#40
post #32
post #3

In case anybody was wondering "Why is the frame rate so lousy?" the answer is that the probe only has about 325 bits per second of downlink on average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(spacecraft)

What's the limiting factor on bandwidth constraints for probes like this? Is it the power of the probe? Is it the distance from earth? I wonder if you could build a mesh network of satellites/probes out farther into the solar system to get better connectivity for projects like this.

The limiting factor is power/distance^2 basically, which determines the signal/noise ratio, which determines the bandwidth.

A mesh network sounds fun, though you'd have to have a fair few probes, as their orbits wouldn't be in sync. Also that far from the sun, solar panela don't cut it and you need nuclear thermal generators, which have a finite lifespan.

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