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Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

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Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#31

I have been monitoring my indoor house air for two years now, and attempting to keep my air as healthy as possible. I have found that: 1) If you are lucky enough to live in an area with clean air, opening a window is orders of magnitude quicker and more effective way to clean air. 2) Gas stoves are the worst thing you can do to your house air (a fume Hood can partially mitigate this) 3) You should be weary of using a…

Have you compared gas stoves to electric stoves? With our induction hob we found cooking in general produces loads of pm10.

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#32
Wait, so bateria that are in your home are getting sucked into the filter like they're supposed to do, die and release endotoxins. But they're going to die anyway and still release those endotoxins but it's just going to be all over my couch that I sit on every day. Ok, maybe that nasty filter you haven't changed in a year provided an environment for the bacteria to grow and the fan disperses it. Sure, I get it if it's some nasty filter you haven't changed in over a year. That's why you don't wait a year to change them. That's like saying, "Bathrooms may provide a breeding ground for mould and bacteria making your home less hygienic!." Ya, no kidding. That's why you clean your bathroom.

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#33
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a dirty filter it may be actually making your air quality worse (in some ways) than just not running the filter at all. It seems like bacteria caught in the filter are dying and releasing endotoxins, which are small enough to escape the filter and then are sent throughout the environment.

Could you spray the filter with Lysol or another generic disinfectant every once in a while? I do that with my car filter.

From what I understood of the article, disinfectant might not do much, because it's dead bacteria which are releasing these toxins as their cell walls rupture. Unless it's a disinfectant which turns these toxins into something less dangerous, lysol won't do much.

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#34

The contrast indicates that regularly replacing the HEPA filters of APs could represent an effective method of avoiding increased endotoxins in the filtered air. That's a pretty clickbaity paper title. The lede was buried. A better title would have been: Regularly replacing HEPA filters may reduce endotoxins in filtered air I'm a high school drop out so what do I know.

"Overall, endotoxins deposition in the alveolar region increased regardless of whether the air purifier was loaded with used or new HEPA filters."

Translation: "This sounds bogus. Wait for replication."

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#35

I have been monitoring my indoor house air for two years now, and attempting to keep my air as healthy as possible. I have found that: 1) If you are lucky enough to live in an area with clean air, opening a window is orders of magnitude quicker and more effective way to clean air. 2) Gas stoves are the worst thing you can do to your house air (a fume Hood can partially mitigate this) 3) You should be weary of using a…

Have you compared gas stoves to electric stoves? With our induction hob we found cooking in general produces loads of pm10.

That's really interesting! I switched from electric to gas (I regret not doing induction) and I found the pm10 and 2.5 are very similar for both. It is Co2 and No2 and vocs that surprise me about the gas stove. I'm no expert, just a lay person trying to make sense of it all but maybe the PM is from the food and therefore pretty consistent for all types of cooking?

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#36

I have been monitoring my indoor house air for two years now, and attempting to keep my air as healthy as possible. I have found that: 1) If you are lucky enough to live in an area with clean air, opening a window is orders of magnitude quicker and more effective way to clean air. 2) Gas stoves are the worst thing you can do to your house air (a fume Hood can partially mitigate this) 3) You should be weary of using a…

Have you compared gas stoves to electric stoves? With our induction hob we found cooking in general produces loads of pm10.

Gas stoves are much worse, as they produce all kinds of combustion byproducts (CO2, etc.) when they're working properly. Here's a random article I found: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/indoor-air-pollut...

Studies have pointed to increased asthma and other respiratory ailments from gas stoves. There's no possible way electric stoves can be anywhere near as bad as literally burning fossil fuels inside your house.

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#37
I built a couple purifiers using a box fan atop a cube made of four HEPA (MERV 13) 20x20x2 furnace filters. Inside the cube, I hung two UVC lamps, one merc vapor at 254nm and one LED-type at "far uvc" 222nm, in the hopes it would kill some of the bad things but question whether the air in the chamber is there long enough for a good kill.

None of us in my household has contracted Covid but that may just be luck.

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#38
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a good idea to seek medical advice from your doctor

Last time I spoke with a doctor about sinus issues they just told me to grab some OTC remedy and that was mostly it

Someone, somewhere has the answers you need. I try tell everyone to not accept "no" or "i don't know" for answers if they're still suffering.

FWIW, eventually had sinus surgery, now do saline rinse every day, astelin antihistame spray changed my life. YMMV. Good luck.

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#39

I have been monitoring my indoor house air for two years now, and attempting to keep my air as healthy as possible. I have found that: 1) If you are lucky enough to live in an area with clean air, opening a window is orders of magnitude quicker and more effective way to clean air. 2) Gas stoves are the worst thing you can do to your house air (a fume Hood can partially mitigate this) 3) You should be weary of using a…

Life is better if you can dust and vacuum on days when you can open the windows. I don't think people understand how much dust the vacuum cleaner doesn't pick up, not because it goes through the filter, but because it gets kicked up by the brush and never enters the fan at all. If you don't believe me, try vacuuming a particularly dirty carpet while barefoot.

Exchanging the air before the dust settles out is a lot better than having to dust a second time.

We've forgotten the unreasonable power of soap in our rush to Better Living Through Chemistry. Someone did tests and showed that a lot of 'cleaned' countertops are gross because the bacteria just get smeared around and homogenized, and counterintuitively the kitchen of a college student may be safer than the kitchen of a 40-something.

When I really clean my counters (parental visits, or realizing entropy is winning), I avoid a lot of cleaning products by first using one of those pot scrapers, then a little liquid soap, a scrub brush, and water. Once I've mopped that up the counter is probably clean, but if I use a cleaning product, this is when I do it. Just enough to swipe over everything, not to lift food particles or dried drops of tomato sauce from last night's spaghetti.

The other forgotten hero is white vinegar. They've tested removing pathogens, heavy metals and car exhaust from garden vegetables (turns out soil contamination is a surface exposure issue more than an absorption issue, even for lead) and white vinegar tested equal to or better than the best vegetable washes - which is to say that none are perfect but some are downright lousy.

Also make sure your sponges aren't gross. Using a gross sponge to clean things makes everything gross. Dipping them in white vinegar and some kettle water is a good way to clean a slightly funky sponge (and burn your fingers - patience is a virtue). Store your sponges elevated, or as I do in one case, prop it up against the wall so one edge (edge not side) is touching the wall and one touching the ground. And don't get sunk cost fallacy with your sponges. Buy in bulk, and when in doubt, throw it out. There's a kind of sponge that comes compressed, a dozen to a pack, and it expands the first time you get it wet. You can throw the spares in your junk drawer and they will get lost.

With plentiful, clean sponges, I tend to use a damp sponge when entropy is winning on the dust front (when it's so dusty you can see the dust from halfway across the room) because otherwise most of that is just going into the air and landing again. A wrung out sponge works wonders, and with a light enough touch I can even use it on books and banker's boxes without leaving any water damage. I recommend practicing on boxes, because if you squeeze the sponge, you might get a water spot. Cleaning dusty bookshelves has gone from an ordeal to just another chore because of this.

Re: Indoor air filtration could lead to increased airborne endotoxin levels (2020)

#40
Endotoxins, mostly Lipopolysaccharide released by bacteria as they die, appear to be broken down by UV treatment. So including a UV lamp after your air filtration system may mitigate this. Another option would be to use water to filter your air, like a giant bong, allowing you to dispose of the water as it gets dirty. Lastly endotoxins can be baked out at 250-300 deg C, so a carbon filtration system could be periodically baked out to be reused. I doubt any plastic fiber hepa filter could withstand such temperatures.
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