Could this article comparing DeWitt Clauses be considered benchmarking?
DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
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Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#32Could this article comparing DeWitt Clauses be considered benchmarking?
Or benchmarketing?
Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Author of the blog post in question here. Let me clarify: they shouldn't be there because they're not OSI-approved, right? Just wanna get your point here. (While I understand that BSL/SSPL lack certain liberties, I deemed it okay to mark them as "open source" for the purposes of this post.)
Not just lack of OSI approval, they're attempting to redefine the long accepted meaning of open source to include their new licenses. They want the goodwill of being "open source" without the obligations. The only sorts of licenses that have consistently been considered open source are either copyleft licenses like the GPL and do whatever the hell you want licenses like MIT and Apache. Do whatever you want... unless…
> unless you're part of a group the authors deem evil/immoral/unethical.
What parts of the license mention that?
Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just lack of OSI approval, they're attempting to redefine the long accepted meaning of open source to include their new licenses. They want the goodwill of being "open source" without the obligations. The only sorts of licenses that have consistently been considered open source are either copyleft licenses like the GPL and do whatever the hell you want licenses like MIT and Apache. Do whatever you want... unless…
> unless you're part of a group the authors deem evil/immoral/unethical. What parts of the license mention that?
It is most likely in the "Additional Use Grant" which is tricky - because this additional use grant is distinct to each product licensed under the BSL. This additional use grant is also not that easy to find, since some licenses display it prominently, and others hide it under some additional legal fineprint[1,2].
From mariadb site: https://mariadb.com/bsl-faq-adopting/#limits
"Q: What are the usage limitations under BSL?
A: The usage is limited to non-production use, or production use within the limits of the “Additional Use Grant” defined by the vendor using BSL and specific to each BSL product."
[1] obvious Additional Use Grant for Couchbase, included clearly in https://blog.couchbase.com/couchbase-adopts-bsl-license/
[2] it is extremely difficult to find the Additional Use Grant for Mariadb products themselves. For MaxScale, which is their proxy product, it is buried in a file within the source code (which on the surface level might be a good place for it, but it's not very easy to find and I had to go through lots of legal print to get to it) : https://github.com/mariadb-corporation/MaxScale/blob/2.5/LIC... or https://github.com/mariadb-corporation/MaxScale/blob/6.3/LIC... depending on which version you are trying to use, etc.
Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#35It would be quite refreshing if we could have a story in which Oracle are the good guys for once. I'm sure they are at least purchasing some modern-day 'indulgences' by - for instance - donating food to starving north korean elites?
They try to be the good guy. Their free tier is quite extensive (24GB of RAM, 4 ARM vCPUs and ±2 AMD cores, a several hundred GB of storage), good enough to run quite a decent personal cluster on, probably to lure in businesses for their AWS-style cloud services which are as ridiculously expensive as their competition. However, just like AWS, Azure, and GCloud, their admin UI is complicated, slow, frustrating and ful…
I've read various stories over the years about Oracle extremely aggressively pushing high bills because they think you're using the "free" version of MySQL or VirtualBox in a way that you're supposed to pay for it. I'd be very wary running anything "free" from Oracle (as in: I wouldn't).
Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#36Could this article comparing DeWitt Clauses be considered benchmarking?
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Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#37Honestly, the presence of that clause screams to me "this app sucks and we'll sue you if you tell anyone how badly". That may not be the case whatsoever, but my first assumption is that they're trying to hide terrible performance.
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Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#38Interesting. As a SaaS vendor, we do not allow performance testing of the production system. Because, you know, just casually saturating production resources can become very iffy for strange and unexpected reasons. And you will always be able to saturate a system, or a subsystem of the subsystem of the system. However, we have provided bigger customers, or customer willing to pay for it, with performance testing envi…
Looking at the language, almost all of them allow you to run benchmarks since it's phrased as "you may not publish benchmark results"; it doesn't forbid to actually run them. Never mind that MS-SQL, Oracle, etc. are not SaaS vendors of course. To be honest, if a cloud vendor has technical problems with someone running a few benchmarks then that would make me very wary of said cloud vendor. What's the difference betwe…
For a smaller/younger SAAS: If a customer environment is suddenly running at 100% of some resource when it wasn’t before, that’s an important thing to alert on / investigate.
For established players it’s lost in the noise, but if it were me I’d appreciate a heads up for big changes.
Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#39It would be quite refreshing if we could have a story in which Oracle are the good guys for once. I'm sure they are at least purchasing some modern-day 'indulgences' by - for instance - donating food to starving north korean elites?
I wasn't sure if you were joking, so I googled "oracle north korea". This is the first result: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/10/07/North-Kor...
It's a strange feeling to find myself agreeing with the North Korean government.
Re: DeWitt Clause, or can you benchmark %database% and get away with it
#40If you want to benchmark for internal reasons you don't publish the results and nobody knows. If you want to make a service to the community, run your benchmarks, download Tor and publish the results anonymously. I don't see what the big deal is? Is this only limited to marketing claims where you post it on your company's website?
How likely is it that one takes an anonymous benchmark published by a noname researcher seriously?
Aren't benchmarks supposed to be more or less reproducible? So just publish the results and the data?