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Grandpa’s Basement House

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Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#31

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

rvba wrote: post #24
djvdq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds. I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least…

Looking at the /r/fuckhoa subreddit it seems that those homeovner associations are on level of North Korea and Soviet Russia - someone can come to your property (didnt happen in Eastern Europe even during communism), spy on you, fine you for not parking your car at the garage, fine you 500 dollars for putting a motorcycle outside your house, fine you for having drapes of different color, fine you for having a dog...…

I received two letters recently from my HOA:

1. Trash can was outside more than 24 hours after trash pickup. Do it again and you’ll be fined.

2. Outdoor Christmas lights in a tree more than 30 days after Christmas. Remove within 10 days or get fined. Those lights have been there for years from the previous owners. I never turn them on and just ignore them. Well, they are gone now.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#32

Post by armadsen »

There was one of these basement houses in my neighborhood (mostly built in the 40s) until a few months ago when it was flipped and they built a top floor on it making it look like a completely different (and unremarkable) house.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#33

Post by djvdq »

macinjosh wrote: post #26
djvdq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds. I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least…

You have an incredibly narrow minded and immature view of freedom. Some people _like_ living in neighborhoods with these bylaws/HOAs. You are fully made aware of the bylaws before you purchase the property and you can decide for yourself whether or not it works for you. I live in the US and in my immediate area there are neighborhoods without these bylaws, some with, and there is even agricultural use land mixed in.…

> In the US you have the freedom to choose among many different ways of life.

So... like in almost any other country in the world.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#34

Post by adventured »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #21
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shocking how quickly peoples opinions change on this stuff when an eccentric next door can lower the value of their own investments

Maybe we shouldn't think about housing as an investment

Maybe we shouldn't try to control people, including what they think, in such an authoritarian manner.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#35

Post by next_xibalba »

djvdq wrote: post #16
next_xibalba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds. I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least…

> if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that?

No. The contract you freely enter into governs this. This is sort of like asking, "Can I decide not to pay you, per our contract, after you've rendered services?" No. And that restraint doesn't make me "less free". Not by any common understanding of the word "freedom", anyway.

The U.S. has some 300+ million citizens. I'm not sure we can make monolithic statements about how each of us views the relative freedom of our country. Personally, I wouldn't know how to make such a comparison. However, I strongly suspect we're "more free" than, say, a person living in Iran.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#36

Post by macinjosh »

rvba wrote: post #24
djvdq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple question - if you want to leave HOA and after that grow vegetables, can you do that? If not - it has nothing to do with freedom. It's only propaganda of having the most freedom when citizens of a lot of "non free" countries (by American standards) will laugh at your absurds. I'm not saying USA is not free country - of course you are free. I'm only saying that telling that you have the most freedom is at least…

Looking at the /r/fuckhoa subreddit it seems that those homeovner associations are on level of North Korea and Soviet Russia - someone can come to your property (didnt happen in Eastern Europe even during communism), spy on you, fine you for not parking your car at the garage, fine you 500 dollars for putting a motorcycle outside your house, fine you for having drapes of different color, fine you for having a dog...…

> I cant figure out how this works in a country with more guns than people. If those egomaniac HOA people enter someone's property - wont they get shot?

1. This is just bigotry. You have been fed lies from culture and the media about what American's with guns are like. The vast, vast majority of gun-owning Americans are responsible and level-headed. Despite what most people gather from the news and pop culture people don't just take potshots at people entering their property.

2. People enter into these associations _voluntarily_. People who start to complain about the rules after agreeing to them just didn't read anything they were agreeing to. And no, this is not fine print. Every HOA I've been a part of provides a binder and a website with all the info you need to make the right choice.

3. Freedom, including gun and home ownership, are about personal responsibility. It is an important cultural value in the US and I understand that it is not something that is valued elsewhere. Which is why people like you end up so confused.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#37

Post by gorgoiler »

mmh0000 wrote: post #28
gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

When I bought my first house, I purposefully avoided any neighborhood with an HOA because of all the internet scare mongering I had heard over the years. After ten years of one neighbor parking cars on their lawn, another growing more weeds than blades of grass, and another with 8 vehicles parked along the street I was done. When I bought my second house I specifically wanted an HOA. After another 6 years, I couldn’t…

Two factors are at play:

HOA or not

Good folks or not

The balance between the two is nuanced and it sounds like you landed on a different side of the debate to me. I’m sorry to hear that, and I respect that, as a result, you have a different view of HOAs to me. Peace.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#38

Post by quesera »

mmh0000 wrote: post #28
gorgoiler wrote: post #3

The idea of HOAs having any kind of say feels so undemocratic, but not in a standard way. We should not tolerate purely popular democracies. We allow representative democracies, and part of that public contract is for our leaders to represent all those in their constituency, not just those who voted for them. That means those in the minority. The crazy guy growing gourds instead of a lawn. The loon with the purple ho…

When I bought my first house, I purposefully avoided any neighborhood with an HOA because of all the internet scare mongering I had heard over the years. After ten years of one neighbor parking cars on their lawn, another growing more weeds than blades of grass, and another with 8 vehicles parked along the street I was done. When I bought my second house I specifically wanted an HOA. After another 6 years, I couldn’t…

Keep in mind that some HOAs are cooperative organizations, and some are run by very damaged people.

Also keep in mind that getting together to organize a set of common standards and restrictions is the basis for all exclusive communities. That's OK if you are on the casual compliance side of the rules, or if you get to write them to suit your preferences. But it is discriminatory. Similar covenants have been used to keep out ethnic minorities (because of the way they live, like animals!).

Being for or against HOAs is like being for or against laws. It's meaningless without context.

Some HOAs are traffic lights. Some HOAs are civil forfeiture.

An HOA can morph from tolerable into unconscionable. Deny the HOA the right to exist in the first place, and it will never go bad. This is an appealing tradeoff for many.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#39

Post by philips »

next_xibalba wrote: post #9
djvdq wrote: post #6

> Growing vegetables on what should be a lawn is verboten in many locations, if not by the government than by private association bylaws. So again, USA is country with most freedom? Freedom™, but you can't grow vegetables on your own property. Or you will be punished for having too long grass. Lmao

What the author is describing are rules of homeowner's associations and other similar organizations. Individuals freely enter agreements with homeowner's associations which dictate land use. One is also free to choose to live in a place not governed by these rules. But, they are not the law of the land and they do not implicate a lack of freedom in the U.S. relative to other countries. Its quite silly to suggest as m…

A problem I have with HOAs is that towns and Counties will often invest significantly in new construction areas that have HOAs from initial development. The government builds new parks, schools, etc directly adjacent to HOA neighborhoods. If you want close access to these public amenities you need to buy in the HOA.

So, in a way HOAs are sort of endorsed/franchised by the towns and counties which create them.

Re: Grandpa’s Basement House

#40

Post by adventured »

djvdq wrote: post #30
quesera wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people absolutely don't have freedom when it comes to accepting HOA terms Of course they do. If you don't like income tax, move to WA. If you don't like sales tax, move to OR. (If you like them both, move to CA!). These choices have inherent compromises. If you don't like HOAs, choose a different neighborhood. Again, inherent compromises. But freedom of movement is guaranteed to all (non-incarcerated) US citizens.…

Freedom of movement is only one kind of freedom. Freedom of growing your own carrot on your own property is another. Just don't say that you Americans are more free than other nations. Because you are simply not.

And what was the point of coming into this thread and pushing that attack specifically at the US? The world is overflowing with highly regulated economies, including all across affluent Europe. The article didn't claim the US was more free than xyz, people in this thread weren't claiming that either. You set up a straw issue so you could knock it down.

You're relatively new here, so here's a tip: what you're doing (trying to incite, posting flamebait) is specifically against HN's guidelines.

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