Computer science is a liberal arts degree • Hacker News Board

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#31

Post by savolai » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:31 AM UTC

dijit wrote: post #4

I think the author is conflating vocational education with university curriculum. It is often the case that universities offer courses that are much more theoretical than the practical application, even medical studies to some extent begin with very high level concepts and theories; the reason for this is because they’re attempting to optimise for better understanding of the underlying foundations of the discipline t…

That’s not the point of view the author is advocating though. It’s not that they think CS is not practical enough.

To me, what they’re saying is that CS has a point of view that is so narrow and constructed from such a limited perspective that it’s actually harmful to society as a whole.

i.e. CS is removed from science as a whole, not by virtue of being too theoretical but as a result of being applied, but in a very skewed fashion. CS practitioners have a lot of power in society and ethical norms are lacking, so this has consequences.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#32

Post by blululu » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:31 AM UTC

denton-scratch wrote: post #18

Social Science, Ergonomics and Psychology aren't liberal arts subjects. Mediaeval History, French Literature and (arguably) Architecture are examples of liberal arts. I think there's an argument to be made that computer scientists benefit from studying liberal arts; but I think the author fails to make that argument (let alone that CS is actually liberal arts, as per the subject).

Recommending a book on Marketing Science at the end is what really annoyed me the most about this.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#33

Post by headmelted » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:35 AM UTC

bloodyplonker22 wrote: post #13

Quoted post unavailable.

You mis-spelled reddit.com. Don’t worry, plenty of upvotes for this kind of thing over there.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#34

Post by ukj » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:36 AM UTC

t_mann wrote: post #28

CS is liberal arts because software is used by humans? By that standard pretty much any degree qualifies as liberal arts, including medicine, engineering, law,... Tbf, that kind of thinking actually goes back to the origins of medieval universities, so there is some case to be made (a lot of universities still award BAs for pretty much every subject). But I guess the true intention here is to lower the barrier in tec…

Not just software. All knowledge (computer science, mathematics, physics, biology, etc.) is used by humans.

To what end? That is not a scientific question.

To steal the sentiment from a meme.

Scientist: what is philosophy good for?

Philosopher: I don’t know. What is science good for?

Scientist: Well science has broad application in…

Philosopher: aaaand you are doing philosophy *drops mic*

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#35

Post by eimrine » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:38 AM UTC

samarama wrote: post #25

curt15 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematics itself is half science and half art.

Mathematics is the most science and least art form possible. Every other field of study has more artsiness than Mathematics. However, Mathematics also still has a lot of artsiness to it.

Totally disagree. Mathematics is not a science at all because there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields.

And remember what David Hilbert has told about one of his students who decided to go into arts instead of keep learning Math with him. He told "he did not have enough imagination to become a mathematician".

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#36

Post by spacemanmatt » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:39 AM UTC

denton-scratch wrote: post #18

Social Science, Ergonomics and Psychology aren't liberal arts subjects. Mediaeval History, French Literature and (arguably) Architecture are examples of liberal arts. I think there's an argument to be made that computer scientists benefit from studying liberal arts; but I think the author fails to make that argument (let alone that CS is actually liberal arts, as per the subject).

I can comfortably get on board with your analysis that there is an argument to be made but this author fails to make it.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#37

Post by ukj » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:41 AM UTC

ycombinete wrote: post #30

ukj wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the “woke” world of computation this sentence is false. And the previous sentence is true. The liar’s paradox, decidability and undecidability (being core ideas in computer science) directly imply that it is scientifically undecidable what a man; or a woman is. Those are (in fact) questions for the liberal arts department and broader society, and the answers are usually settled by social convention and democratic…

Your comment is confusingly written. I have no idea what you’re talking about, or what sentences you are referring to. Also, you’ll collect a lot more downvotes now that you’re obnoxiously talking about your downvotes.

What is confusing you about my comment?

People who understand computer science also understand exactly what I am talking about. Because I explicitly said what I am talking about: undecidability.

It is scientifically undecidable what a man; or a woman is. That is a question for the liberal arts and broader society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecidable_problem

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#38

Post by yesenadam » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:42 AM UTC

eimrine wrote: post #35

samarama wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematics is the most science and least art form possible. Every other field of study has more artsiness than Mathematics. However, Mathematics also still has a lot of artsiness to it.

Totally disagree. Mathematics is not a science at all because there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields. And remember what David Hilbert has told about one of his students who decided to go into arts instead of keep learning Math with him. He told "he did not have enough imagination to become a mathematician".

> there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_mathematics

Worth googling too, a wide range of things come up:

https://www.google.com/search?q=experimental+mathematics

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#39

Post by spacemanmatt » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:44 AM UTC

somewhereoutth wrote: post #27

CS is not a science, certainly not mathematics, it is not about 'seeking the deeper beauty of our [for mathematics: any ] reality'. CS is not engineering, not much actual science or working principles get applied for most of the work done. CS is design, but design of a 4D artifact, something that moves in time and space, not just 3D. To make things more tractable, we do this in discreet space, not continuous space, w…

Is there some way to explain to me, a college dropout, why mathematics is a natural science but computations is not?

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#40

Post by ealexhudson » Sat, May 21, 2022, 10:45 AM UTC

ggm wrote: post #9

In Ireland, computer scientists who wrote programs were deemed writers and qualified for Irish arts tax treatment, in the 70s

Copyright, still today and across much of the world, is based on the concepts of authorship and publishing. It works in software in practically the same way as literature.