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5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

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Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#31

Post by colinmhayes »

tomcam wrote: post #11
paxys wrote: post #5

Sets an interesting precedent for literally every other federal body that "acts as prosecutor and judge" while skipping the judicial system. Should everyone fighting an immigration or deportation case be able to request a jury trial? What about the military? Labor violations? EPA fines?

Anyone can request a jury trial in the USA. It's guaranteed by the Constitution.

Right, but there are a lot of federal agencies that adjudicate and potentially give out harsh fines without actually being a court. If you are in that situation you do not have the right to a jury trial, at least until this case was decided.

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#32

Post by nonameiguess »

rootusrootus wrote: post #10
djbusby wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't US military have their own code of justice and court system?

Sure, but this is about constraints by the Constitution, and military members do not give up their Constitutional protections when they enlist.

Yes, they do. You absolutely give up freedom of speech and any rights of unreasonable search and seizure when you enlist. You don't give up every right, though. You still get the option of a jury trial whenever you want one. A commander's ability to levy administrative punishment relies on you opting in. You always have the option to seek court martial instead, the issue being they can levy much more severe punishments.

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#33

Post by vmception »

troelsSteegin wrote: post #21

"The Supreme Court is, no doubt, the nation’s most powerful court. But the 5th Circuit, the federal appeals court that covers Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas, is staking out a claim to be the most dangerous — the least wedded to respecting precedent or following an orderly judicial process. The 5th is arguably the most conservative among the country’s dozen appeals courts." - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/…

A fresh take from judges that barely get any action is something this nation needs. The conservative part is a distraction.

There are other circuits across this vast land that get even less action. All circuits operate within a silo of case law within that circuit, with a much lower weighting towards precedent in other circuits, and an even lower weighting towards rulings further removed.

Just need inspiration to try!

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#34

Post by torstenvl »

rockemsockem wrote: post #15
rootusrootus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this is about constraints by the Constitution, and military members do not give up their Constitutional protections when they enlist.

Don't they? I was very much under the impression that they did.

No. They absolutely do not.

The closest thing that's true is this: Constitutional rights are always weighed against some government interest, and there's a lot of deference to the military with regard to government interest. So there may be things on the margins which are unconstitutional in every or nearly every civilian case, but are constitutional in the context of the government's interest in national defense.

However, those rights still exist, and courts must still address those issues through the appropriate balancing test.

EDIT: A cornerstone case to read, for those interested, is Parker v. Levy: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/417/733/

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#35

Post by bayareabadboy »

troelsSteegin wrote: post #21

"The Supreme Court is, no doubt, the nation’s most powerful court. But the 5th Circuit, the federal appeals court that covers Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas, is staking out a claim to be the most dangerous — the least wedded to respecting precedent or following an orderly judicial process. The 5th is arguably the most conservative among the country’s dozen appeals courts." - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/…

This is silly. A conservative opinion writer could write the exact same thing about the 9th circuit court.

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#36

Post by civilized »

rayiner wrote: post #17

The gist of the decision is that the SEC’s imposition of civil penalties and disgorgement violated defendants’ seventh amendment right to a jury trial. Under the seventh amendment, you have a right to a jury trial for any claim that would have been an action at law in the courts of England at the time of the founding, prior to the merger of law and equity.[1] There is an additional principle that so called “public ri…

Finally, a reason for conservative FDR-hate that I can understand.

Seriously, this is not a sarcastic or troll post. I have always been confused about this.

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#37

Post by krapp »

colinmhayes wrote: post #26
YuriNiyazov wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger ;

> in the time of war So are military courts going to close down since we’ve now ended the Afghanistan war? Or is that comma before “militia” going to mean that the time of war phrase is on for people who in a militia?

The United States is always at war, if not elsewhere, then with itself and its own principles.

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#38

Post by [deleted] »

krapp wrote: post #37
colinmhayes wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the time of war So are military courts going to close down since we’ve now ended the Afghanistan war? Or is that comma before “militia” going to mean that the time of war phrase is on for people who in a militia?

The United States is always at war, if not elsewhere, then with itself and its own principles.

[deleted]

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#39

Post by adrr »

tomcam wrote: post #11
paxys wrote: post #5

Sets an interesting precedent for literally every other federal body that "acts as prosecutor and judge" while skipping the judicial system. Should everyone fighting an immigration or deportation case be able to request a jury trial? What about the military? Labor violations? EPA fines?

Anyone can request a jury trial in the USA. It's guaranteed by the Constitution.

Can I for my speeding ticket or parking ticket?

Re: 5th Circuit Court Finds SEC Enforcement Unconstitutional [pdf]

#40

Post by vmception »

> In keeping with Founding conceptions of separation of powers, the Supreme Court has made clear that Congress cannot “delegate to the Courts, or to any other tribunals, powers which are strictly and exclusively legislative.”

I love this. I hope this trend catches on, I can't wait to gut these bloated agencies and force Congress to get back to work at the risk of a completely paralyzed society if they don't.

Any supreme court ruling, and court ruling, and any agency ruling or even from the White House, that acts as a Super Legislature instead of some other rationale, is going to get gutted, no matter how old or "settled" the case masquerades to be. Find a different rationale to reach the same desired goal, or rely on Congress, or the government cant be involved.

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