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How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

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Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#31

Post by mrjin »

0-_-0 wrote: post #14
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I did not see any temperature measurements of the controller though in this article so the test doesn't feel very scientific to me. It's not just thermal throttling of the controller that causes slowdown, it's also the filling of the DRAM/SLC cache. Also, we should talk more about some vendors screwing over customers by replacing controllers or NAND chips with slower parts to cut down cost while keeping the same SSD…

The tested SSD indeed has an SLC cache which likely filled and the author misinterpreted the cause of the throttling as thermal.

That's it I would say.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#32

Post by joenathanone »

kkielhofner wrote: post #30

Glad to see attention brought to this issue. I recently started using these: ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIe 4.0 X4 Expansion Card Supports 4 NVMe M.2 (2242/2260/2280/22110) up to 256Gbps for AMD 3rd Ryzen sTRX40, AM4 Socket and Intel VROC NVMe Raid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084HMHGSP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ZY... If you have a spare x16 slot I highly recommend. I’ve torture tested the latest and greatest hot screaming NVMe dr…

Just bought one on your recommendation, we'll see how it works out.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#33

Post by jotm »

linker3000 wrote: post #16

This is well known in the industry. Just under 10 years ago, I was on a support team for 'Enterprise flash', which meant PCIe cards stuffed with NAND flash. The card sizes were 500MB to 2.2TB. One of our tasks was to help qualify supported systems, which went down to approving SOME chassis IF the card was in a particular slot with a specific airflow. In some cases, it was required that internal ribbon cables were re-…

2.5" SSDs have the advantage of being surrounded by a heatsink (at least all SSDs I've seen had a (semi)metallic case and thermal pads), while m.2 and NVMe often do not.

So a lot of them fail from overheating - mostly cheaper models/makes. But even the cheapest Samsungs (that their own controllers) seem to fare better than cheap brands like ADATA.

Actually, this has been a problem for a lot of controllers - RAID, SATA, USB3.x, networking cards that fail due to the manufacturer using subpar cooling - usually a small heatsink that they've deemed to be good enough under "normal usage" (i.e. not heavy, sustained usage), or they rely on server cooling to do the job (which actually makes sense).

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#34

Post by jeffbee »

jagermo wrote: post #6
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I did not see any temperature measurements of the controller though in this article so the test doesn't feel very scientific to me. It's not just thermal throttling of the controller that causes slowdown, it's also the filling of the DRAM/SLC cache. Also, we should talk more about some vendors screwing over customers by replacing controllers or NAND chips with slower parts to cut down cost while keeping the same SSD…

Are there any programs that can track temperature for different vendors? I'd love to run a few ssds through a benchmark and have hard data for thermal data.

sudo nvme smart-log -H /dev/nvme0

Will show all temperature sensors on the device, there are usually several. It also will show how often the composite temperature crossed the warning and critical thresholds in the lifetime of the device, and how long the device spent above those thresholds.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#35

Post by jeffbee »

kkielhofner wrote: post #30

Glad to see attention brought to this issue. I recently started using these: ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIe 4.0 X4 Expansion Card Supports 4 NVMe M.2 (2242/2260/2280/22110) up to 256Gbps for AMD 3rd Ryzen sTRX40, AM4 Socket and Intel VROC NVMe Raid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084HMHGSP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ZY... If you have a spare x16 slot I highly recommend. I’ve torture tested the latest and greatest hot screaming NVMe dr…

Most SSDs have temperature thresholds at 85C or higher. Why do you care if yours maintains 40C?

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#36

Post by zozbot234 »

jeffbee wrote: post #35
kkielhofner wrote: post #30

Glad to see attention brought to this issue. I recently started using these: ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIe 4.0 X4 Expansion Card Supports 4 NVMe M.2 (2242/2260/2280/22110) up to 256Gbps for AMD 3rd Ryzen sTRX40, AM4 Socket and Intel VROC NVMe Raid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084HMHGSP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ZY... If you have a spare x16 slot I highly recommend. I’ve torture tested the latest and greatest hot screaming NVMe dr…

Most SSDs have temperature thresholds at 85C or higher. Why do you care if yours maintains 40C?

There are reasons to assume that data retention might drop exponentially as temperature increases. So if you care about the data, you'll want to avoid overheating your storage media.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#37

Post by agapon »

jagermo wrote: post #6
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I did not see any temperature measurements of the controller though in this article so the test doesn't feel very scientific to me. It's not just thermal throttling of the controller that causes slowdown, it's also the filling of the DRAM/SLC cache. Also, we should talk more about some vendors screwing over customers by replacing controllers or NAND chips with slower parts to cut down cost while keeping the same SSD…

Are there any programs that can track temperature for different vendors? I'd love to run a few ssds through a benchmark and have hard data for thermal data.

You can also slap a thermal sensor to the SSD. Or use contactless thermometer.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#38

Post by MisterTea »

I wonder if this is what permanently effected a 256GB Adata SATA SSD I had in my Linux box. I was running updates and noticed it was very slow once it started unpacking everything. At first I let it go and went about my business surfing the web which wasn't hitting the disk. Finished updating, decided to reboot as new kernel was pulled and the issue was now obvious as it was dragging its feet booting. Worried, I ran a backup of my home dir upon login and every file transfer topped out at 4 or 5 MB/sec. SMART was enabled but reported nothing.

I wound up dumping the ssd to ensure I had a full image and that entire operation topped out at 5 MB/s. And I had the SSD out of the case in a cradle when ripping so it wasn't getting cooked in the case. I did not notice it feeling abnormally warm or hot. I later tried to mess with the disk in a cradle but as soon as I powered it on it topped out at 4-5 MB/sec so either there is some sort of defect causing an immediate thermal issue or something in the controller went awry.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#39

Post by jeffbee »

zozbot234 wrote: post #36
jeffbee wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most SSDs have temperature thresholds at 85C or higher. Why do you care if yours maintains 40C?

There are reasons to assume that data retention might drop exponentially as temperature increases. So if you care about the data, you'll want to avoid overheating your storage media.

Power-off storage temperature is a problem for MLC NAND, but when powered on the NAND cells need to reach a high temperature to operate properly. If you are cooling the flash chips with a heatsink (rather than cooling the controller) you will be forcing the device to dump power into the cells to heat them to a temperature where they work properly.

3D NAND hits its best program time and raw bit error rate at about 70C.

Edit: See data table on page 27. Retention is directly proportional to device active temperature, i.e. higher cell temperature during programming leads to higher retention. https://www.jedec.org/sites/default/files/Alvin_Cox%20%5bCom...

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#40

Post by someotherperson »

kkielhofner wrote: post #30

Glad to see attention brought to this issue. I recently started using these: ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIe 4.0 X4 Expansion Card Supports 4 NVMe M.2 (2242/2260/2280/22110) up to 256Gbps for AMD 3rd Ryzen sTRX40, AM4 Socket and Intel VROC NVMe Raid https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084HMHGSP/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ZY... If you have a spare x16 slot I highly recommend. I’ve torture tested the latest and greatest hot screaming NVMe dr…

Is there any real benefit over some thermal pads and heat sinks? I've passively cooled CPUs to idle at 40 degrees and max out at 60 degrees during benchmarking. I imagine $10 worth of pads and heatsinks would achieve the same outcome as this expansion card.
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