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Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

status.hetzner.com

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

#31
post #21

Excuse the ignorance, but couldn't ISPs block the attacks?

That would make sense, but its hard:

- You need to identify the traffic to be filtered and the post states: "Due to always different destinations (IPs, ports, packet size) (..)"

- You need to maintain some agreement with a large number of ISPs

- You need to maintain some gossiping infrastructure to these ISPs

- ISPs may not care about your DDoS attack

Re: Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

#33
post #15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online games (MMOs, shooters, etc) come to mind

MMOs over UDP?

MMOs often have TCP connections for things like chat and services like auction house (often even HTTP microservices), but most of the gameplay is still UDP.

Re: Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

#34

I thought OVH and Hetzner were the source of a ton of these DDoS attacks. Their IP ranges always seem to be in abuse logs. Cloudflare write in a recent attack: The top networks included the German provider Hetzner Online GmbH (Autonomous System Number 24940), Azteca Comunicaciones Colombia (ASN 262186), OVH in France (ASN 16276), as well as other cloud providers. https://blog.cloudflare.com/15m-rps-ddos-attack/

Hetzner operates a 5-10 Tbps network, roughly the same traffic volume as all of Spectrum/Charter Communications (the 2nd largest cable company in the US). They show up everywhere because they are a big part of the internet.

A wise network operator once told me - never shit on people when they are under attack. Because in the not too distant future you are going to be the victim.

Re: Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

#35
post #21

Excuse the ignorance, but couldn't ISPs block the attacks?

Yes, network operators (should) participate in centralized black hole services like UTRS[1]. If you can identify the specific IPs that are under attack you make a BGP announcement to other participating networks asking them to drop traffic to that IP within their networks.

As a participant you can avoid paying to send outbound attack traffic, and also identify attack sources within your own network.

1. https://team-cymru.com/community-services/utrs/

Re: Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

#36
post #11

At their size, don’t they have some kind of hardware-level packet filtering ability like cloudflare to protect against these attacks?

Not if the level of incoming bandwidth exceeds the available bandwidth of the circuits involved.. you can't filter it when the link is saturated. Cloudflare uses other techniques like global distribution so aggregate bandwidth is higher than the attack bandwidth

does anyone else have a network that can do what Cloudflare can do? seems like magic sometimes.

Re: Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

#39
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the preferred protocol for ultra-real-time games because a few ms ago is not helpful information to spend time recovering. A sufficiently fast-moving MMO could apply

What MMOs use UDP? Asking sincerely because I have never seen one.

all of them, its been like that for a long time. im resurrecting an old mmo, and even then it was UDP.

WoW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2, etc

Some might use TCP for login and character select, but its UDP while playing.

Re: Second large Hetzner outage in a week caused by DDoS attack

#40
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if the level of incoming bandwidth exceeds the available bandwidth of the circuits involved.. you can't filter it when the link is saturated. Cloudflare uses other techniques like global distribution so aggregate bandwidth is higher than the attack bandwidth

does anyone else have a network that can do what Cloudflare can do? seems like magic sometimes.

Perhaps OVH?
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