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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#31

Post by 10000truths »

lelandfe wrote: post #28
jeroenhd wrote: post #13

Looks like Microsoft finally found someone good enough at terminal emulator development to fix the performance issues. I can't shake the feeling that the original Github issue and the heated discussions in there were more Windows Terminal devs not wanting to admit their knowledge gap in this area than impracticality and complexity.

To be fair, the GitHub commenter in question had made this statement: > It really seems like most of the code in the parser/renderer part of the terminal is unnecessary and just slows things down. What this code needs to do is extremely simple and it seems like it has been massively overcomplicated. I think they deserved a better response from Microsoft, but I also probably would not have responded favorably to that…

> I also probably would not have responded favorably to that wording – irrespective of if they were correct.

Why not? I see nothing wrong with this sort of feedback. It's blunt, but constructive.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#32

Post by BaseballPhysics »

deburo wrote: post #12

I blame the disagreement on online communications. Can you imagine this conflict lasting this long if these guys had been talking about it in person over coffee? They would probably behave with much more restraint and respect for each other.

Careful, that's starting to sound like an example of a downside to remote work, which is a touchy topic these days...

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#34

Post by blagie »

yardie wrote: post #16
blagie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) 1980-2000 Microsoft was evil. I find 2022 Microsoft to be ahead of Google and Facebook on the ethics front, so YMMV. Microsoft doesn't do much antitrust anymore, is /more/ respectful of privacy than most of the tech industry, and by some measures, is the world's largest contributor to the open source collective. Tools like Visual Studio Code are pretty good too, and run on GNU/Linux. 2) Even with evil companies, c…

> is /more/ respectful of privacy than most of the tech industry, I see you haven't used the new, privacy busting Windows 11 OS, yet?

I have. It's bad.

Pavlov (one of the other comments) has it right with the Overton window comment:

- Compared to ChromeOS or Android, Windows 11 is the ultimate in privacy.

- Compared to Google Docs, Office 365 is the ultimate in privacy

... and so on.

With Google's or Meta's surveillance infrastructure, if we get a Putin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or similar (and I'm by no means trying to equate those individuals), individuals who checked their data in will be !@#$%ed.

On the other hand, I don't feel like people are putting themselves in danger using Windows 11.

Personally, I use Ubuntu + emacs + libreoffice.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#35

Post by TrueTom »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

It seems you have posted the wrong link because there isn't really an apology?

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#36

Post by AndrewKemendo »

I will say, looking through the Windows Terminal GH repo, their whole page seems unnecessarily curt in tone:

>I built and ran the new Terminal, but it looks just like the old console

>Cause: You're launching the incorrect solution in Visual Studio.

I realize that comforting language isn't a priority for a lot of devs/documentation writers, but it's always good to keep in mind that we are dealing with other people reading our docs and we should take the time to care of each other with our language.

https://github.com/microsoft/terminal

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#37

Post by miiiiiike »

Issue: Feeling bad after interaction with OSS developer at .

Steps to reproduce:

1) Report a bug.

2) Get called dumb by developers at .

3) Demonstrate that it is, in fact, a bug with examples, test cases, and offer a potential fix/PR.

4) Hear that it’s being “handled internally”.

5) Wait for the blog post re-iterating what they called dumb, talking about how great the team is that fixed it, and see your demonstration code or test cases in the linked commit.

6) Why are you still here? No, you’re not going to be credited, this is going in my promotion packet.

I’ve lost count of the times I’ve seen this over the past 20 years. Whenever I’m about to report a bug in a project I smile to my girlfriend and say “OK, I’m going to go get called dumb.”

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#38

Post by lallysingh »

TrueTom wrote: post #35
DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

It seems you have posted the wrong link because there isn't really an apology?

"We admit this feature began with a kerfuffle we caused in the summer of 2021. When confronted with being told our rendering pipeline had terrible performance, we turned inward. We relied on our existing experiences and we leaned heavily on our partner teams’ work to conclude the DirectWrite general purpose renderer was the best fit for our product. We were wrong. As such, we dedicate this experimental renderer to the community as an olive branch. We know we have so much more to learn, but we hope that you will accept our apology and understand we’re humans behind this product with a capability and willingness to learn from our past mistakes. Thank you for sticking with us. We strive to make this an experience we can all learn from to not only improve ourselves, but to improve our product and delight you all."

You have to scroll down a bit. Whether that's an apology or just "please accept our apology that isn't actually here," is debatable. An actual "We were wrong, we're sorry" would have been clearer.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#39

Post by rkachowski »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

I understand issues are always more complicated than at first glance, but your tone doesn't exactly invite sympathy for yourself or your team.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#40

Post by shakabrah »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

Typically, when apologizing, you should name the person you are apologizing to. Otherwise, they might do something like not acknowledge your apology.
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