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Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

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Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#31

Post by pjc50 »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #29
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

CA water use is 50% environment, 40% agriculture, 10% residential. Maybe we should focus on reducing that 50%? It was nice and all when we had plenty of water to waste but it’s time to revisit those policies. https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

Which species and ecosystems are you proposing eliminating?

("environmental use" really means "leave it in the river"; reducing environmental use to zero means making rivers never reach the sea because you've extracted 100% of the water.)

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#32

Post by Spooky23 »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #29
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

CA water use is 50% environment, 40% agriculture, 10% residential. Maybe we should focus on reducing that 50%? It was nice and all when we had plenty of water to waste but it’s time to revisit those policies. https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

So we should turn the Northern California wilderness into a desert as well?

Maybe the people who want to secede have a point after all! That’s pretty monstrous.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#33

Post by JKCalhoun »

DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

You do see a lot of almond tree groves ripped up along the San Joaquin valley. Perhaps some farmers are already finding it too expensive to grow water-thirsty crops.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#34

Post by papito »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #29
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

CA water use is 50% environment, 40% agriculture, 10% residential. Maybe we should focus on reducing that 50%? It was nice and all when we had plenty of water to waste but it’s time to revisit those policies. https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

Farmers also grow rice in California, and alfalfa, which are two top water-hungry crops. It's so remarkable to which extent business and profits take precedence over the public good of tens of millions, in the United States.

"We'll deal with it when it's a catastrophe - ka-ching!"

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#35

Post by api »

DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

Isn't there a third option that involves building serious infrastructure to pipe water down from the Northwest?

Of course you can't build things in America anymore so that's probably off the table.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#37

Post by danaris »

dahfizz wrote: post #27
bombcar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need the transcontinental pipeline to push water to where it needs to be. Or agriculture needs to move to where the water is.

I don't forsee a transcontinental water pipe going over well. I, for one, refuse to subsidize people who want to live in a dessert with my own water table. People should live in areas that can support human life.

While I think there should absolutely be limits of some kind, if the water need in places like California could be spread out over the water table of, say, everything else west of the Mississippi, I imagine it could make a big difference to the water-poor places without running the risk of depleting the water-rich places enough for anyone to even notice.

Of course, that's assuming that such a pipeline network would be practical to build and maintain. Personally, I suspect that local desalination will end up being better for coastal or near-coastal areas like California.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#39

Post by turtledove »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #29
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

CA water use is 50% environment, 40% agriculture, 10% residential. Maybe we should focus on reducing that 50%? It was nice and all when we had plenty of water to waste but it’s time to revisit those policies. https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

That link says that the environmental water use happens largely in areas that are not competing with agriculture. E.g. protecting rivers, streams, and wetlands in the redwoods.

The answer to "we're being wasteful with water during a drought" is not "let's irreversibly destroy habitat and threaten species so we can continue to be wasteful."

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#40

Post by DannyBee »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #29
DannyBee wrote: post #18

It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last yea…

CA water use is 50% environment, 40% agriculture, 10% residential. Maybe we should focus on reducing that 50%? It was nice and all when we had plenty of water to waste but it’s time to revisit those policies. https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

Yeah, your numbers are not different, just framed differently. If you scroll down, you'll see the "More than nine million acres of farmland in California are irrigated, representing roughly 80% of all water used for businesses and homes." number i cited.

Not sure you can necessarily do a lot about the 50%, but maybe worth trying - my (ignorant) understanding is that a lot of it is in areas where it would not help.

You can also see that urban water use has fallen like a rock already.. In the past 2 decades, per-capita use went from 230 gallons per day to 146 gallons per day - people have already cut their water use by 30%.

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