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Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

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Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#31
post #2

I’m honestly really blown away by this. Are there other such tools out there that do a similar thing?

Datastation is sorta similar but in my brief experience the description is more aspirational at this stage. https://datastation.multiprocess.io/

Hey thanks for the shoutout and trying it out!

It is indeed early stages (I started it not yet a year ago).

I'd love to hear any feedback you've got.

In general every release gets more stable, more automated tests, better performance, etc.

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#33

Awesome tool the UI is really smart. Shameless plug: I built a similar, web-based tool for exploring a database at www.human.software

The sign up button does not seem to work so I was not able to try it. Also, the FAQ's on the home page are gibberish.

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#34

Surprised there isn’t SQLite support. Perhaps it’s in the works. Also surprised this is a native app, would have expected a web application. In any case, compelling demo.

A bunch of the database IO in it is JDBC based, so a web app probably isn’t going to happen.

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#35
post #2

I’m honestly really blown away by this. Are there other such tools out there that do a similar thing?

Per some of the other answers, you might want to check out this discussion from last year:

Ask HN: Best low-/no-code solution for simple web-based database frontends

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26657803

(208 points on April 1, 2021 | 142 comments)

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#36

Someone who builds something like this in form of an Excel plugin will have a real winner. And if you do, and when you make your millions, please send me a check as a show of gratitude :)

Are Excel plugins really a valid market?

I know there are some but I wonder what the size of the entire segment is... 95%+ [ of places will never allow installation of anything extra!

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#37

Surprised there isn’t SQLite support. Perhaps it’s in the works. Also surprised this is a native app, would have expected a web application. In any case, compelling demo.

> Also surprised this is a native app, would have expected a web application.

who is going to pay for a database access tool that requires you punch an incoming hole in your firewall?

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#38

Here’s some more information on Ultorg: > Ultorg creates general-purpose software that helps organizations manage their data. Based on a new method for interactive data visualization, our product combines ease-of-use with expressive power to allow end-users to query, display, and edit relational data, without resorting to custom programming. This fills a long-standing gap between spreadsheets and tailor-made database…

I wonder how much the data in the demo helps sell the readability and space-efficiency. Like anything looks tidy if there's 3-4 rows of data being joined. But that sort of well behaved small-scale hello world database isn't difficult to work with in any tool. How does it handle if the table I join pulls in a thousand matching rows for each key?

There's a dataset like that in the demo at https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/553439658 . Ultorg handles larger datasets through a number of strategies: (1) automatic LIMIT clauses with an infinite scroll like mechanism, and with various rules to deal with the nested data structure, (2) a multi-threaded UI that keeps the visual query representation responsive even during long-running queries, (3) automatic cancellation of ongoing queries if the user makes a change, e.g. to add a filter, (4) "frozen" headers and values that makes the data make visual sense even as you scroll down multiple pages, (5) a separate "single-column" form layout type that works well when you have a few grouping fields followed by a long subtable, and a few others.

(Author of Ultorg here.)

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much the data in the demo helps sell the readability and space-efficiency. Like anything looks tidy if there's 3-4 rows of data being joined. But that sort of well behaved small-scale hello world database isn't difficult to work with in any tool. How does it handle if the table I join pulls in a thousand matching rows for each key?

> I wonder how much the data in the demo helps sell the readability and space-efficiency. This is a very good question.. In the section of the video on automatic form layout it is strongly implied that the auto-layout is driven by semantic inference of the column names. I see this easily breaking -- anyone who's ever inherited a production database knows that column names are often cryptic or context specific. Also m…

Column names are used primarily to inform the detection of "heading" fields, i.e. fields that should be given a larger font in the form layout, or fields that should be shown by default when adding a join to another table. The other heuristics are based on things such as data type, average length of strings, and average join cardinalities.

(Coincidentally, the system is named after a cryptic, context-specific column name in a real dataset the author once worked on.)

Re: Ultorg: A user interface for relational databases [video]

#40

Here’s some more information on Ultorg: > Ultorg creates general-purpose software that helps organizations manage their data. Based on a new method for interactive data visualization, our product combines ease-of-use with expressive power to allow end-users to query, display, and edit relational data, without resorting to custom programming. This fills a long-standing gap between spreadsheets and tailor-made database…

> our product combines ease-of-use with expressive power to allow end-users to query, display, and edit relational data, without resorting to custom programming. This fills a long-standing gap between spreadsheets and tailor-made database applications. How does it compare to Access or LibreOffice Base? That's always been the next step once the spreadsheet proves inadequate.

Microsoft Access was an attempt to do the same: provide a user interface to a relational database. But it was never as easy to use as Excel, or the other office applications. There are still quite a few MS Access files around in government and legacy corporate datasets, and Ultorg can connect to them.

Back when Ultorg was an academic project, we did a controlled user study comparing Ultorg's visual query interface (then called SIEUFERD) to Microsoft Access' query builder. Using the System Usability Scale, Ultorg's usability was in the 52th percentile (better than 52% of business software), while Microsoft Access was 6th(!) percentile (better than 6% of business software, i.e. worse than 94% of business software). (Source: https://people.csail.mit.edu/ebakke/research/sieuferd_sigmod... )

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