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Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

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Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#31

Post by tester756 »

bobviolier wrote: post #26
amelius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 80s and 90s you could buy software running on Windows, where the vendor of the software didn't pay anything to Microsoft; in fact, I'm sure Microsoft was happy with them supporting and increasing the strength of their platform. Why does this have to change now? Why does the platform need a cut?

Because back then you paid a lot of money for Windows and they also sold you on Office and the likes. Google's business model with android is exactly this, give the OS for cheap but earn money on the apps. Not saying 10 or 30 is the correct amount. It's just different now.

majority of the world never paid a single cent for windows

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#32

Post by pjmlp »

amelius wrote: post #24
bko wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bandcamp is using their own billing system, bypassing Google's cut. Every app could do this and cut Google out all together. An app could just let you download the app, pay some amount when you're in the app which would unlock the functionality. I don't think its unreasonable for Google to have a problem with this. They want to get the reach of the app store, and make money off it, without paying a cut to the host li…

In the 80s and 90s you could buy software running on Windows, where the vendor of the software didn't pay anything to Microsoft; in fact, I'm sure Microsoft was happy with them supporting and increasing the strength of their platform. Why does this have to change now? Why does the platform need a cut?

The software vendor instead payed for magazine ads, placement on shop shelves, had their own payment and distribution infrastructure.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#33

Post by unethical_ban »

I didn't think about it this way before, but it really looks like Epic might have bought out Bandcamp just to make this strategic legal play.

Some (niche reddit subs) think Musk bought out Twitter just to shit on the short sellers of TWTR that overlap with targeting Tesla, and "just because he could".

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#34

Post by ece »

bko wrote: post #17
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google ensures that they are they are frightened away with scary warnings.

I don't know, I just tried downloading an APK directly (telegram). Android warns me file might be harmful. Do you suggest they shouldn't warn someone when they download an APK? It's also browser specific and I imagine all major browser give the same kind of warning because , you know, downloading an APK directly from a website might be harmful.

Something like enabling instant apps and play protect scanning for any apk on the web could mean a nicer and safer experience for users. I think people would still use the app stores for their discovery/convenience but safer web installs could be an option for both users and developers.

This model exists on desktops and laptops, where there is signing or browser scanning, just not on mobile.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#36

Post by gigatexal »

PeterisP wrote: post #11
warning26 wrote: post #6

While I generally agree with Epic's positions, it seems like a bit of a stretch here, considering that Android allows both sideloading and alternative app stores. Unlike on iOS, there's nothing on Android stopping Bandcamp from releasing a standalone sideloadable app with any payment system they desire.

Antitrust rules apply for abuse of dominant market power (which Google certainly has) even if theoretical alternatives exist. It does not matter that it's not literally a monopoly, as that is not the legal bar that needs to be passed for Google to be limited in what they can and can't do.

But it does matter what the law says. If they’re not a monopoly in the eyes of the law what can a judge do?

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#37

Post by oauea »

bko wrote: post #16
PeterisP wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antitrust rules apply for abuse of dominant market power (which Google certainly has) even if theoretical alternatives exist. It does not matter that it's not literally a monopoly, as that is not the legal bar that needs to be passed for Google to be limited in what they can and can't do.

Bandcamp is using their own billing system, bypassing Google's cut. Every app could do this and cut Google out all together. An app could just let you download the app, pay some amount when you're in the app which would unlock the functionality. I don't think its unreasonable for Google to have a problem with this. They want to get the reach of the app store, and make money off it, without paying a cut to the host li…

Google is running an app store. Why should they have any right to involvement whatsoever after the app has been installed? Once the user has installed the app the transaction has been finalized. And if that app is given away for free, and Google has a problem with that, they should ban all free apps and require charging a fee.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#38

Post by josh2600 »

tester756 wrote: post #31
bobviolier wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because back then you paid a lot of money for Windows and they also sold you on Office and the likes. Google's business model with android is exactly this, give the OS for cheap but earn money on the apps. Not saying 10 or 30 is the correct amount. It's just different now.

majority of the world never paid a single cent for windows

It was built into the cost of the computer.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#39

Post by cma »

bko wrote: post #17
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google ensures that they are they are frightened away with scary warnings.

I don't know, I just tried downloading an APK directly (telegram). Android warns me file might be harmful. Do you suggest they shouldn't warn someone when they download an APK? It's also browser specific and I imagine all major browser give the same kind of warning because , you know, downloading an APK directly from a website might be harmful.

So you've gone through all the weird flows to accept and enable installing. Now how do you get security updates? Google scares them again every time, even though android apps can already execute arbitrary downloaded unsigned code at runtime (otherwise V8 and other JITs that generate machine code can't work), so it isn't really protecting much and mainly makes things more insecure by not letting you add your own trusted providers permanently for timely updates.

Re: Epic is asking a court to stop Google from yanking Bandcamp off the Play Store

#40

Post by adrian_b »

bobviolier wrote: post #26
amelius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 80s and 90s you could buy software running on Windows, where the vendor of the software didn't pay anything to Microsoft; in fact, I'm sure Microsoft was happy with them supporting and increasing the strength of their platform. Why does this have to change now? Why does the platform need a cut?

Because back then you paid a lot of money for Windows and they also sold you on Office and the likes. Google's business model with android is exactly this, give the OS for cheap but earn money on the apps. Not saying 10 or 30 is the correct amount. It's just different now.

During most of the time since Windows exists, the majority of its users have not paid for Windows separately, but as a part of the purchase price of a new computer.

Android could also be paid as a part of the purchase price of a smartphone and maybe it already is, but of course a one-time payment would be much less profitable for Google than a continuous stream of revenue from the apps.

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