Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#31

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

boppo1 wrote: post #22

Glawen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that it is next to impossible to stop a fully charged battery fire. The most efficient way is to throw the vehicle in a pool of water. But even if you manage this feat, the battery can catch fire again once remove from water.

'Bout the same with a gasoline tank, no?

You can smother a fuel fire, a lithium ion battery fire will continue without oxygen.

With large batteries, once they heat up to the point where they are burning it's tough to cool them back down enough to extinguish the fire.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#32

Post by sjg007 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:48 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #18

ranger_danger wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All motorized vehicles can catch fire.

While true, what causes the fires? That’s important. Non-electric vehicle fires are most often caused by external causes, not something inherent in the design or during normal operation.

Cooling system breaks down. Gas drips onto hot exhaust.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#33

Post by plater » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #29

kkfx wrote: post #24

In the past we have had electric bus with electricity coming from an aerial network, surely they have some limits, but they are the sole logic design for a city. A small battery just to emergency maneuver but nothing more. It's FAR cheaper and it's already proved they can last 50+ years without much maintenance. Batteries are meaningful for cars and trucks waiting for some aerial electrical network like starting from…

Even better: trams and light rail. Smoother ride and no particulate from tyres.

Electric wire bus is better than tram as it does not require expensive tracks. It is also much easier to change the route. The tracks also create a lot of noise and vibration that gets into nearby buildings. Tracks are also dangerous for bicycles, and slippery for cars and trams.

There might be benefits with trams, but I do not know what.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#34

Post by 1-6 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:54 PM UTC

ranger_danger wrote: post #8

emteycz wrote: post #2

Don't let this make you think this is a general feature of electric buses. There is an electric bus fleet (at least 20 buses, probably more) in Hradec Kralove, CZ for 5+ years now and it has never caught fire - and it's always the best bus ride I ever had, and it's also much better for the city environment (I mean loudness and smell)...

All motorized vehicles can catch fire.

What varies is the rate of thermal runaway.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#35

Post by iggldiggl » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:54 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #19

wcoenen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The floor of the bus needs to be as low as possible to make it easier for elderly or otherwise disabled people to get on and off.

That's why kneeling busses exist. Are EV busses not equipped with that feature?

Kneeling solves the problem that even a low-floor bus still has a floor height of around 30 cm. Due to a need to maintain sufficient ground clearance and the ability to sweep over regular height kerbstones (up to 20 cm), you can't get much lower than that, whereas conversely you also can't really raise the kerb at regular bus stops that high (i.e. to 30 cm or higher).

Kneeling gets you down to a floor height of about 22 - 24 cm, where level boarding with a 22 cm high kerbstone is just about possible, though still subject to not insignifcant requirements where and how the bus stop exactly can be placed in terms of road geometry.

So the basic gist is that kneeling doesn't absolve you from the requirement of getting the floor of the bus as low as reasonably practicable in the first place, and you need both if you want to achieve anything resembling level boarding at all.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#36

Post by Drunk_Engineer » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

plater wrote: post #33

goodpoint wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better: trams and light rail. Smoother ride and no particulate from tyres.

Electric wire bus is better than tram as it does not require expensive tracks. It is also much easier to change the route. The tracks also create a lot of noise and vibration that gets into nearby buildings. Tracks are also dangerous for bicycles, and slippery for cars and trams. There might be benefits with trams, but I do not know what.

The main benefit of trams is that multiple cars can be coupled together.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#37

Post by gkop » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #25

ageitgey wrote: post #15

Don't take this as an indictment of all electric buses. London has over 500 electric buses (out of 9,000). A lot of the buses in my neighborhood are the new electric double-decker ones and it's extremely nice. They are quieter, run smoother, don't polute the air, and have cool features like USB charging at every seat. It is like riding in a Tesla - just an obviously better bus experience. It will just take some time…

This is just great! Now they need electric taxis. Hopefully the end of the black snot!

Would you say more about the connection between black snot and ICE taxis?

The reason I ask is that I was under the impression people commonly get black snot from the the tube (eg. https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/16jjgt/london_why_d... ).

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#38

Post by frosted-flakes » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

Drunk_Engineer wrote: post #36

plater wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric wire bus is better than tram as it does not require expensive tracks. It is also much easier to change the route. The tracks also create a lot of noise and vibration that gets into nearby buildings. Tracks are also dangerous for bicycles, and slippery for cars and trams. There might be benefits with trams, but I do not know what.

The main benefit of trams is that multiple cars can be coupled together.

And comfort. Streetcars on rails are so smooooth, compared to buses where it's always a bumpy ride.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#39

Post by leke » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 2:28 PM UTC

If I was a competitor, I would look for ways to sabotage the idea of electric vehicles. If I can think of it, I'm guessing other people are thinking it too. Maybe even doing it, like having buss batteries catch fire.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#40

Post by throw93232 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

leke wrote: post #39

If I was a competitor, I would look for ways to sabotage the idea of electric vehicles. If I can think of it, I'm guessing other people are thinking it too. Maybe even doing it, like having buss batteries catch fire.

Electric buses are around in many cities for 100 years, they usually do not catch fire.