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Public Money, Public Code

publiccode.eu

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Re: Public Money, Public Code

#31

Post by ceeplusplus »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #19

Why do software developers always shoot themselves in the foot with regard to their economic value? Governments pay all the time for development of technology that they buy, but that doesn't mean that the IP is released. For example, the government paid Boeing to develop transport aircraft. However, that does not mean that all the drawings/plans/etc for the aircraft are made public. The government is buying a set of…

The government paying for software to be developed is quite a bit different from a SaaS offering. If I pay some guy on Upwork to build something for me I expect the source code.

Of course the SaaS model is much better for developers to realize their worth, because you are essentially creating capital goods as a developer and being the owner of those goods is much more profitable than selling them.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#32

Post by yboris »

dusted wrote: post #2

Wow, nice one, Facebook! I'm trying to share the link, and I get: "Posts that look like spam according to our Community Guidelines are blocked on Facebook and can't be edited."

Confirming - I'm unable to post to my Facebook wall!

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#33

Post by postalrat »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #19

Why do software developers always shoot themselves in the foot with regard to their economic value? Governments pay all the time for development of technology that they buy, but that doesn't mean that the IP is released. For example, the government paid Boeing to develop transport aircraft. However, that does not mean that all the drawings/plans/etc for the aircraft are made public. The government is buying a set of…

What would be the expectation of source code ownership if you hired consultants or a team of developers to produce a piece of software for you? Do they keep it proprietary to themselves or should it belong to you?

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#34

Post by simion314 »

Maxburn wrote: post #17
AlotOfReading wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still sell the code, you just have to use something like the Red Hat subscription model after the first contract. This is how a substantial part of the tech market already operates. How does it 'backfire' here?

Why would I change my entire business model to deal with this? Just skip this customer and move on.

You are bidding for a contract that asks you to release the code, bid accordingly, if you have super secret code then don't bid at all or increase your bid. The hope is the public will get some open source code they can fix in future if there is a need and not have to beg you years later to please fix stuff or add a new feature.

As I private person I can offer a programming projects but demand access to the source code , you are free not to bid for my project but I think I am the sane one that wants the code so i am not locked into a corner.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#35

Post by ISL »

machinerychorus wrote: post #26
postalrat wrote: post #10

The state I lived in developed one of those covid tracking apps. I asked for the source code and was told it wasn't available and would never be. I talked to people working on other software developed for the state and they all think that software shouldn't be public. It seems crazy to me that taxpayers pay for this software but it doesn't belong to them. Knowing what I do know I gotta wonder if it's just about those…

I was tangentially related to the covid app stuff so I can offer some insight there: most of those apps weren't built by the state. Google provided an open-source "base app" that could be customized by the states, but most states hired third-party contractors to build an app for them. I've worked in public sector and this is typical. the states can't open source it because they don't own it, they just pay a third-par…

Third parties can build/operate open-source software.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#36

Post by [deleted] »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #12
postalrat wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? If you are a software developer working for a state or city you expect to sell the software you develop for them and collect the money yourself?

If I develop software specific to the public sector and sell it to the government, it is "publicly financed software developed for the public sector". What is my incentive to develop any software at all for public sector, since potential client no. 2 will just take the code that I released? The ask does not state employed by... it just says: “Implement legislation requiring that publicly financed software developed f…

[deleted]

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#37

Post by jahewson »

postalrat wrote: post #10

The state I lived in developed one of those covid tracking apps. I asked for the source code and was told it wasn't available and would never be. I talked to people working on other software developed for the state and they all think that software shouldn't be public. It seems crazy to me that taxpayers pay for this software but it doesn't belong to them. Knowing what I do know I gotta wonder if it's just about those…

Define “belong”.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#38

Post by automatoney »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #19

Why do software developers always shoot themselves in the foot with regard to their economic value? Governments pay all the time for development of technology that they buy, but that doesn't mean that the IP is released. For example, the government paid Boeing to develop transport aircraft. However, that does not mean that all the drawings/plans/etc for the aircraft are made public. The government is buying a set of…

Some of us value other things (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source-software_movement#...) more than additional compensation. These ideas have roots in the original hacker culture that this site was named for - this stuff is the foundation of a lot of computer culture.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#39

Post by yxhuvud »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #20
postalrat wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your incentive is that you are being paid.

Imagine "Microsoft Office"-complexity software developed specifically for public sector. Then, sold to public sector once, then everyone else is free to use it. Would Microsoft still develops Office? Unlikely.

What would happen then is that the next public sector organization would want to pay someone to either fix bugs or to specialize the program to fit their needs better. And the more installations, the more this would happen. Maintenance is not free and the public sector would still have to pay the bill for it.

Re: Public Money, Public Code

#40

Post by [deleted] »

AlbertCory wrote: post #27

Totally right. The same applies to publicly funded research (goodbye, Elsevier), and even to court filings (goodbye, Pacer). As for postalrat's comment: there is a certain bureaucratic mindset that wants "their" stuff secret. Even when there's no possible justification. "You can't get in trouble for saying No" is their philosophy. Example: on Nextdoor (home of the dumbest people on the web), I stopped getting my dail…

[deleted]
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