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Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

arxiv.org

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Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#31

Post by doubtfuluser »

I have the feeling, that the paper is flawed and missing an important experiment. All their results seem to rely on skills being used. There is indeed a need then for Amazon to prevent user tracking in skills (like for example Apple does and requires consent by the user). But to come to the conclusion that Amazon shares the data with advertisers I would have expected an experiment with eliminating skills as a reason and just having personas interact with Alexa core services. I guess just from shopping questions or general knowledge questions a lot of information for ad targeting could be inferred. If that’s however not influencing ads served when no skills are used, then it’s not necessarily Amazon directly sharing the information, but the skills being able to do so using Amazons provided tooling.

That’s a difference at least for my interpretation how “evil” company xyz is.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#32

Post by z3c0 »

malf wrote: post #7

Paper seems to actually show things like “If you install the Fitness skill, Amazon shows you fitness ads”, but that’s less sexy, I guess.

I think what it's actually showing (per Section 6.1) is that Amazon is using wishy-washy language to give the impression that they are not using voice recordings to build ad profiles on users[1]. They instead claim that it's for "personalized experiences" and "building inclusiveness".

This adorable little infographic on "the journey of a voice request" conveniently leaves out that it gets used for advertisement[2]. They have also made public statements that outright state that voice data doesn't get used for ad-targeting[3]

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Alexa-Privacy-Hub/b?ie=UTF8&node=1914...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/b/?node=23608618011

[3] In a statement, Amazon said the company took “privacy seriously” and did “not use customers’ voice recordings for targeted advertising.” https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/31/business/media/amazon-goo...

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#33

Post by mellavora »

mukesh610 wrote: post #20
mort96 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why people are so freaked out by living in a surveillance system where every corporation tracks their every move for profit You haven't read enough dystopic fiction.

Fiction isn't exactly a good argument

Right, but perhaps the McCarthy era is?

Or the civil rights movement?

Or the labor movements?

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#34

Post by abricq »

wildmanx wrote: post #26
abricq wrote: post #24

I would be SUPER interested to see this same methodology applied to an iPhone or an Android phone resting in a room. I've already had the feeling that discussions that I had, later had an impact on my ads, but never knew if it was random or not.

Given the power demands of such an always-on analysis engine, that would show in battery runtime. At least if it's happening while the device is not plugged in.

On iOS, the word "Siri" can be detected at any time (if set so).

Maybe (just an hypothesis) there could be a set of other keywords also listened for, that once detected could start another more complex routine. Like that, you could limit the battery impact, and yet be able to listen to the users for advertising purpose.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#35

Post by entropie »

daveoc64 wrote: post #30

What ads do Echo devices say or show? Aside from annoying suggestions like "By the way, you can ask me who the most famous person in the world is".

Iam not a native english speaker, but I read the topic as Echo process voice so Amazon can server better targeted ads.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#36

Post by greazy »

osrec wrote: post #28
abricq wrote: post #24

I would be SUPER interested to see this same methodology applied to an iPhone or an Android phone resting in a room. I've already had the feeling that discussions that I had, later had an impact on my ads, but never knew if it was random or not.

I have mentioned this a number of times here on HN, but each time I'm told by other users that it just appears that way because the topic is fresh in my mind... I don't think that's the case.

This is called observational bias.

Imo the truth is much scarier: advertises know us better than we known ourselves. There's also the idea that we are so alike, advertises can generalize to great success.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#37

Post by CyberRabbi »

osrec wrote: post #28
abricq wrote: post #24

I would be SUPER interested to see this same methodology applied to an iPhone or an Android phone resting in a room. I've already had the feeling that discussions that I had, later had an impact on my ads, but never knew if it was random or not.

I have mentioned this a number of times here on HN, but each time I'm told by other users that it just appears that way because the topic is fresh in my mind... I don't think that's the case.

The logic is that you talk about dozens of things around your phone per day yet you never see an ad targeted at you, you only notice it on the rare occasion it does happen. So either Apple is deciding to only target you with ads very rarely or it’s a rare coincidence.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#38

Post by usrusr »

wildmanx wrote: post #25
fxtentacle wrote: post #8

The problem isn't the lack of knowledge. The problem is lack of alternatives. Name a single privacy preserving smart home assistant that the average person can buy, install, and use. Market theory says people will vote with their wallet, which is why I boycott all of them. But I'm under no delusion that my behavior will change anything. Voting with your wallet only works if someone is willing to offer what you want.

> The problem is lack of alternatives. Name a single privacy preserving smart home assistant that the average person can buy, install, and use. You are implying that all alternatives have to be "buying a smart home assistant". There is another alternative: Don't buy one. If all existing alternatives are bad, then not buying any is also a way to "vote by wallet". Then there will be a big market segment of not-having-b…

Unless you happen to be a blind person or something like that.

But I share your sentiment nonetheless, I have zero desire to become part of the group of persons that got used to voice control and would therefore miss it if it wasn't available (as long as I don't turn blind I guess)

For the blind however, I guess it's a huge win that ad-driven voice control gadgets exist and are available to them. I'm sure their options would be basically nonexistent if they were the entire market.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#39

Post by dr_dshiv »

doctor_eval wrote: post #19
dr_dshiv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let’s take the in store analogy. Agree that following someone home to spy on them is wrong. But in store, if I see a person looking at some items on a shelf and start to tell them about related items, doesn’t that violate the need for explicit consent? Expecting “full understanding” is too high a bar, IMO. Implicit consent, public notice and opt out are sufficient. Otherwise you end up with GDPR cookie opt ins th…

I don’t think anybody claims that you need consent to do the equivalent of displaying “other products you may like”. The customer entered the store willingly, and what you describe is quite literally the job of a shop assistant. The need for consent would come if the assistant were to record the entire conversion you have with the customer, and send it to Facebook or Amazon in exchange for money.

I was responding to the claim about “main thing is customer explicit consent. one where customer fully understands what he consents to.” Maybe I misunderstood.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#40

Post by yunohn »

doubtfuluser wrote: post #31

I have the feeling, that the paper is flawed and missing an important experiment. All their results seem to rely on skills being used. There is indeed a need then for Amazon to prevent user tracking in skills (like for example Apple does and requires consent by the user). But to come to the conclusion that Amazon shares the data with advertisers I would have expected an experiment with eliminating skills as a reason…

Additionally, they are trying to imply the common trope of “voice assistants are listening to everything we say all day for ads”, whereas their test methodology was to actively use the top skills for those interests and perform actions.

While I don’t like the sharing of such data for ads, it’s a far cry from Alexa processing voice in the background with zero interaction.

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