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Elon's Giant Package

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Re: Elon's Giant Package

#31

Post by angus-prune »

blitzar wrote: post #27
rkagerer wrote: post #26

Can someone explain this: Now just imagine he does end up owning Twitter and taking it private. Musk can break every securities law related to public communication ever invented, and at worst, he’ll be fined relative pennies. If the GOP wins back Congress, could you imagine any regulator going after Elon if he reinstates Trump?

> Can someone explain this Its made up bullshit. > Musk can break every securities law Owning twitter does not make someone immune to the law. > could you imagine any regulator going after Elon if he reinstates Trump Yes, even when Trump was President his friends were prosecuted and jailed, friends of Presidents regularly go to jail. Giving Donald Trump, a regualar citizen, a twitter account does not a provide you wi…

I dont think it makes it immune, but it shifts the balance of action. If you're rich being "Immune from the law" is not a binary thing (and we've already seen Elon treat the law in this way), and owning Twitter could make Elon immune from the law for longer.

If the SEC got an injuction against Elon tweeting, how it would manifest and play out would be very different depending on whether Elon owns twitter or not.

Currently, twitter have no interest in defending Elon and would fully comply with any injuction, ban Elon, and let him fight it out with the SEC and jsut go along with it. Whether Elon wins or not, he'd be banned from twitter for weeks/months until it was settled.

If Elon owns Twitter then they are not going to remove him until every legal avenue has been exhausted. Both Twitter and Elon personally would be fighting the injunction. They would fight every point and, even if they knew they'd lose, throw up any delaying action they could just to keep Elon on Twitter for longer.

Basically: Independant Twitter: Elon is silenced for months while the courts thrash it out Elon Twitter: Elon is very vocal for months while the courts thrash it out

And that is ignoring the possibilty of Elon manipulating the world and using twitter to manipulate the court case (which we've already seen him try to do). Imagine if he threatened to let Trump back on twitter and whip up anti-biden sentiment in the run up to an election? The SEC/Courts are meant to be politically independant, but in reality he might even get the SEC to back down completely. Something that would never be possible if he didn't own twitter and wasn't allowed to tweet.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#32

Post by kranke155 »

bin_bash wrote: post #28
4oo4 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think to test this, to make sure it doesn't become Truth Social (where all speech is free, but speech against the owner is bannable), that someone needs to tweet critical and/or trolling things about Musk all the time, as a sort of canary. For example, this photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/03/20/30363780-8488279-... I don't doubt his vision of free speech but I highly doubt h…

> photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell I’m with you as far as testing Elon’s limits but I don’t think photos of celebrities with unsavory people generally should be considered damning. Celebrities get asked to take photos next to random people all the time. I don’t think that should be seen as any kind of endorsement of them.

Is this the full extent of it. Indeed I mean … people take random party pics with other people all the time.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#33

Post by 4oo4 »

bin_bash wrote: post #28
4oo4 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think to test this, to make sure it doesn't become Truth Social (where all speech is free, but speech against the owner is bannable), that someone needs to tweet critical and/or trolling things about Musk all the time, as a sort of canary. For example, this photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/03/20/30363780-8488279-... I don't doubt his vision of free speech but I highly doubt h…

> photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell I’m with you as far as testing Elon’s limits but I don’t think photos of celebrities with unsavory people generally should be considered damning. Celebrities get asked to take photos next to random people all the time. I don’t think that should be seen as any kind of endorsement of them.

That's fair, and lots of wealthy people have photos with her or Epstein even if they didn't participate in his pedophilia ring, though many of them took their money. It's just a starting point, though Musk's pettiness and egotism can't be underestimated.

Other options:

- Implying Musk did participate in the pedophilia ring (not true that we know of, but Musk does have experience with accusing innocent people of being pedophiles)

- Tesla being an absurdly racist place to work: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/14/judge-finds-tesla-liable-to-...

- Rampant sexism at SpaceX: https://www.lioness.co/post/at-spacex-we-re-told-we-can-chan...

- Reminding people how bad the AI is in Tesla vehicles and how many people it's killed and almost killed, and how it gets worse with every software update

- Animal cruelty at Neuralink: https://www.the-sun.com/news/4662578/elon-musk-neuralink-tes...

- Credible reports of emotional abuse against partners: https://medium.com/@webwifi/open-letter-to-grimes-682c2d9cee...

- Reminders that Musk didn't invent or build anything at Tesla, but rather bought the company from the two founders that did all the actual work, and that he's a spoiled brat in general

Anything to put oligarchs in their place is always a good thing, since Musk is far beyond the point of absolute power corrupting absolutely.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#34

Post by cco »

4oo4 wrote: post #18
tomcam wrote: post #17

> He’s concurrently framed the entire purchase of Twitter under some nebulous vision of free speech. On the contrary, it is the most concrete vision of free speech I can imagine. Elon said explicitly that he wants Twitter to support any legal speech. The United States has by far the most caselaw in the world detailing the use and restriction of speech.

I think to test this, to make sure it doesn't become Truth Social (where all speech is free, but speech against the owner is bannable), that someone needs to tweet critical and/or trolling things about Musk all the time, as a sort of canary. For example, this photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/03/20/30363780-8488279-... I don't doubt his vision of free speech but I highly doubt h…

Much simpler, does Elon's jet's Twitter bot stay around? That's the litmus test haha.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#35

Post by robbedpeter »

ncmncm wrote: post #19
14u2c wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears they believe that SpaceX is Musk's personal slush fund.

Prove it's not.

Demonstrate its use as such. Extraordinary claims, etc.

The level of scrutiny on SpaceX is incredible, and rightly so. Any unethical conduct or illegal money shuffling would be caught out quickly.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#36

Post by blitzar »

carnitine wrote: post #30
blitzar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> putting out a report with a price target of $4,600 for TSLA That is the PR department. > they’ve been taking profits and trimming their TSLA position That is their fund mangement arm. Are you for real and should I be angry? Were you really unaware that the words these people say on the tv, while helpfull for their current position, dont always reflect their actions or even actual beliefs?

Price targets and investment research reports have nothing to do with the PR department.

ARK wants even needs investors. Going on CNBC and telling everyone that the core asset of your fund is going to the moon, dont miss out!!!!!!!! is how you get investors to pay you a fat fee. Going on CNBC and announcing that your research department think your investors are going to lose 50% isnt good for business.

The price targets and investment research is entirely PR - designed to get investors to invest with the fund.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#37

Post by 4oo4 »

cco wrote: post #34
4oo4 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think to test this, to make sure it doesn't become Truth Social (where all speech is free, but speech against the owner is bannable), that someone needs to tweet critical and/or trolling things about Musk all the time, as a sort of canary. For example, this photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/03/20/30363780-8488279-... I don't doubt his vision of free speech but I highly doubt h…

Much simpler, does Elon's jet's Twitter bot stay around? That's the litmus test haha.

That's a good one, I forgot about that.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#38

Post by blitzar »

angus-prune wrote: post #31
blitzar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can someone explain this Its made up bullshit. > Musk can break every securities law Owning twitter does not make someone immune to the law. > could you imagine any regulator going after Elon if he reinstates Trump Yes, even when Trump was President his friends were prosecuted and jailed, friends of Presidents regularly go to jail. Giving Donald Trump, a regualar citizen, a twitter account does not a provide you wi…

I dont think it makes it immune, but it shifts the balance of action. If you're rich being "Immune from the law" is not a binary thing (and we've already seen Elon treat the law in this way), and owning Twitter could make Elon immune from the law for longer. If the SEC got an injuction against Elon tweeting, how it would manifest and play out would be very different depending on whether Elon owns twitter or not. Curr…

> If the SEC got an injuction against Elon tweeting

This is not what the SEC do, thus the whole thing is a non existent hypothetical. But lets game it out anyway.

As 100% owner of Twitter, any remediation for failure to comply with the injuction would fall on Elons shoulders. Be it monetary sanctions or even imprisonment.

Independant Twitter: Elon is silenced for months while the courts thrash it out -- Elon Twitter: Elon sits in county lockup for months while the courts thrash it out.

> Imagine if he threatened to let Trump back on twitter and whip up anti-biden sentiment in the run up to an election?

Threatened? Have you not been paying attention? Its basically nailed on Trump is back day 1. I see 0 correlation with Trump having a platform on twitter and anti-biden sentiment. If anything the greatest gift Trump recieved was his Twitter ban. Contrary to what you might hear, twitter is awash with anti-biden sentiment, pro-biden sentiment, anti-trump sentiment, pro-trump sentiment etc.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#39

Post by ncmncm »

robbedpeter wrote: post #35
ncmncm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prove it's not.

Demonstrate its use as such. Extraordinary claims, etc. The level of scrutiny on SpaceX is incredible, and rightly so. Any unethical conduct or illegal money shuffling would be caught out quickly.

SpaceX is not a public company. All public information indicates Musk has retained majority control. "Unethical conduct" and "illegal money shuffling" are undefined terms: it is his company, and he can spend its money however he chooses, subject only to whatever private terms he has arranged with private shareholders.

Re: Elon's Giant Package

#40

Post by samhw »

4oo4 wrote: post #33
bin_bash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> photo of him and Ghislaine Maxwell I’m with you as far as testing Elon’s limits but I don’t think photos of celebrities with unsavory people generally should be considered damning. Celebrities get asked to take photos next to random people all the time. I don’t think that should be seen as any kind of endorsement of them.

That's fair, and lots of wealthy people have photos with her or Epstein even if they didn't participate in his pedophilia ring, though many of them took their money. It's just a starting point, though Musk's pettiness and egotism can't be underestimated. Other options: - Implying Musk did participate in the pedophilia ring (not true that we know of, but Musk does have experience with accusing innocent people of being…

> Credible reports of emotional abuse against partners

I'm not an Elon Musk fan (seriously: grep through any comments I've posted about the guy), but the article linked here is an incredibly weak substantiation of that libellous claim. I'm rather impressed by the writer's balls in posting it. The content of the article is just a desultory ramble through a few things Musk has said or done which make him look like a kinda-shitty person, but nothing remotely rising to the level of abuse.

"He didn't let his kids have stuffed animals" or "he 'put his wife's flaws under the microscope' when they argued" or "he pressured a reporter not to publish an article by insinuating that he'd go to jail" or "I didn't realise he had a dead son, he must not talk about it much" ... none of these make him look like an affable, sweet-natured guy - I'm not sure what anyone expects from a tech billionaire - but to call it 'abuse' devalues the word, imo.

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