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The New Homophobia

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Re: The New Homophobia

#31

Post by a_shovel »

jc_811 wrote: post #4

Does anyone else feel like the recent focus on gender identity/pronouns/trans is being totally driven by the extreme 5% on both sides (left and right)? Meanwhile the remaining 90% of us are under the attitude of "equal rights for all, do and/or call yourself whatever you want as long as it brings no personal harm to others". Personally, for every gender non-binary person I've encountered (there have been multiple), w…

You have no idea how many people would call your non-binary friend a "gender extremist" for the brief interaction you described here.

Re: The New Homophobia

#32

Post by replygirl »

Avshalom wrote: post #30
replygirl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unambiguously safer and easier to be trans in America now than at any time in history. I haven't been anywhere I felt unwelcome; I can drop into places like Dallas or rural PA and interact with strangers just fine. The only ongoing drama I can see being credibly interpreted as a human rights issue is the stuff with very young children. I came out ten years ago, and I didn't get to learn about transness until tha…

>it's import for younger children to explore their identities in a way that allows their parents to mentor them and help them interpret what they're feeling. thing is though: Texas, Florida, Idaho, couple others, have declared that child abuse.

as i understand it, those states have seen pushes to leave it up to parents to educate and nurture their kids in early development, carving out a space where the state cannot take over for parents, which was not a controversial thing to want for families until recently

Re: The New Homophobia

#33

Post by a_shovel »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #24
jc_811 wrote: post #4

Does anyone else feel like the recent focus on gender identity/pronouns/trans is being totally driven by the extreme 5% on both sides (left and right)? Meanwhile the remaining 90% of us are under the attitude of "equal rights for all, do and/or call yourself whatever you want as long as it brings no personal harm to others". Personally, for every gender non-binary person I've encountered (there have been multiple), w…

What you're describing is basically how it works in the real world, for the most part. People have far more important things to do, and are profoundly uninterested in making an issue out of other individuals' personal identities. But: Does anyone else feel like the recent focus on gender identity/pronouns/trans is being totally driven by the extreme 5% on both sides (left and right)? I don't really feel this way, to…

Absolutely. It's been repeatedly noted that every transphobic attack is a recycled homophobic attack. Even before I was told that, I found it obvious that the surge in transphobic rhetoric was a response to the gains and eventual success of the fight for gay marriage, and it was being done by the same people for the same reasons.

Re: The New Homophobia

#34

Post by nomdep »

a_shovel wrote: post #31
jc_811 wrote: post #4

Does anyone else feel like the recent focus on gender identity/pronouns/trans is being totally driven by the extreme 5% on both sides (left and right)? Meanwhile the remaining 90% of us are under the attitude of "equal rights for all, do and/or call yourself whatever you want as long as it brings no personal harm to others". Personally, for every gender non-binary person I've encountered (there have been multiple), w…

You have no idea how many people would call your non-binary friend a "gender extremist" for the brief interaction you described here.

“Them/their” was a gender-neutral way to talk about a person when you didn’t know their gender. But expecting that people you interact with, keep calling you *in plural* because you can’t decide you are he or she, or maybe want to feel like the queen of England, is insane.

Re: The New Homophobia

#35

Post by throwthisaway8 »

jc_811 wrote: post #4

Does anyone else feel like the recent focus on gender identity/pronouns/trans is being totally driven by the extreme 5% on both sides (left and right)? Meanwhile the remaining 90% of us are under the attitude of "equal rights for all, do and/or call yourself whatever you want as long as it brings no personal harm to others". Personally, for every gender non-binary person I've encountered (there have been multiple), w…

No post body was provided.

Re: The New Homophobia

#36

Post by reducesuffering »

shiftoutbox wrote: post #21

There is an “it’s always sunny in Philadelphia “ episode that captures this exactly . Actually it’s the last season when they go to Ireland ; When Mac decides he is gay and how he needs to explain to the gang his identity , and how the gang doesn’t actually care either way what he is , gay, straight , Irish , Dutch .

Even better is the entire bathroom episode about it: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6362488/

Re: The New Homophobia

#37

Post by [deleted] »

jc_811 wrote: post #4

Does anyone else feel like the recent focus on gender identity/pronouns/trans is being totally driven by the extreme 5% on both sides (left and right)? Meanwhile the remaining 90% of us are under the attitude of "equal rights for all, do and/or call yourself whatever you want as long as it brings no personal harm to others". Personally, for every gender non-binary person I've encountered (there have been multiple), w…

[deleted]

Re: The New Homophobia

#38

Post by a_shovel »

replygirl wrote: post #32
Avshalom wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's import for younger children to explore their identities in a way that allows their parents to mentor them and help them interpret what they're feeling. thing is though: Texas, Florida, Idaho, couple others, have declared that child abuse.

as i understand it, those states have seen pushes to leave it up to parents to educate and nurture their kids in early development, carving out a space where the state cannot take over for parents, which was not a controversial thing to want for families until recently

The Florida Department of Health recently released new guidelines stating "Social gender transition should not be a treatment option for children or adolescents." [0]

For those unaware, "social gender transition", in addition to changing their pronouns and name, would be things like a trans girl switching to wearing dresses or growing out her hair, or a trans boy cutting his hair or wearing boy's clothes, or engaging in gender-stereotyped interests like dolls, or any other sort of action the kid finds gender-affirming. It does not include any medical procedures. There is no conceivable benefit to the child of preventing this, and it could prevent them from doing many actions that in cisgender children would be seen as ordinary nonconformance to gender stereotypes.

That it is included alongside a ban on puberty blockers and hormones and a ban on gender reassignment surgery, and an exception to that for intersex people (which intersex advocates oppose, because some doctors will perform unnecessary and risky surgeries on intersex babies to "correct" their genitals before they can consent), shows that all of these have the same goal: enforcing gender conformity.

[0] https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1516773653391806464

Re: The New Homophobia

#39

Post by Avshalom »

replygirl wrote: post #32
Avshalom wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's import for younger children to explore their identities in a way that allows their parents to mentor them and help them interpret what they're feeling. thing is though: Texas, Florida, Idaho, couple others, have declared that child abuse.

as i understand it, those states have seen pushes to leave it up to parents to educate and nurture their kids in early development, carving out a space where the state cannot take over for parents, which was not a controversial thing to want for families until recently

Abbott in Texas has stated any affirming care by parents is grounds to have the children taken away by the state.

Re: The New Homophobia

#40

Post by yusefnapora »

Bostonian wrote: post #19
algebra-pretext wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to believe that most people are like you and are just doing their best to make everyone productive and comfortable. I was a bit surprised to see how most people I interact with over the age of 40 or so (my parents incl.) are pretty stubborn about referring to people based on what they consider right, like it’s some act of bravery to disregard how someone else would like to be treated. I agree with you that t…

"I was a bit surprised to see how most people I interact with over the age of 40 or so (my parents incl.) are pretty stubborn about referring to people based on what they consider right" Well, I'm 51. I don't think a man who takes hormones and gets operated on is actually a woman, and I'd rather not be forced to be complicit in a lie by referring to him as "she". By normalizing transgenderism society is encouraging a…

What do you do when you meet an androgynous person whose gender isn't immediately obvious? If they introduce themselves as female, do you take their word for it, or do you first need to inspect their genitals to make sure you're not being complicit in a lie?
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