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The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

warontherocks.com

31–40 of 282 posts

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#31

The truly obsolete weapons platform is the $1.2 trillion manned F-35 program. A multi-role fighter that is too expensive to fly in this new combat space and cannot survive the multitude of anti-air missiles. The drone air war is a numbers game and unmanned fighters are both cheaper and have better operational specs.

F-35 would do exceptionally well in this conflict. It is designed for contested airspace.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDF Trophy or similar systems work… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)

Trophy and similar weapons work by sending a cloud shard of metal shards in the direction of the target. Given that a presidential convoy will often be in the presence of large amounts of civilians, using active defense system may mean shredding a couple dozen voters (possibly on live television). I can't imagine many politicians being very happy about that. I think DIY weapons would be the more dangerous threat btw.…

I don’t think politicians will really care about staying alive from an attack even if a few bystanders die from the countermeasures.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#33
post #22
post #2

On that topic: why Russian tanks are so vulnerable to these missiles and explode spectacularly [1]. Basically the canon auto-loads shells, and the shell storage is not in a different compartment than the turret. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/04/01/why-do...

Most of the tanks always store a dozen of rounds in the turret for faster reloads.

In the Abrams shells are stored in a separate armoured compartment and are individually fed to the loader as needed. The loader might have a shell fed and in hand ready to reload the gun, so that's one shell in the compartment at the ready over the one loaded in the gun at any given time. There just isn't space for more shells lying around.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#34

The truly obsolete weapons platform is the $1.2 trillion manned F-35 program. A multi-role fighter that is too expensive to fly in this new combat space and cannot survive the multitude of anti-air missiles. The drone air war is a numbers game and unmanned fighters are both cheaper and have better operational specs.

Yep and useless in the north, where the actual closest borders with Russia are.

I thought they fixed that already--software tweak for a sensor.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#35
post #2

On that topic: why Russian tanks are so vulnerable to these missiles and explode spectacularly [1]. Basically the canon auto-loads shells, and the shell storage is not in a different compartment than the turret. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/04/01/why-do...

None of these articles seem to mention WHY the tanks are designed this way (although I admit I just searched for keywords).

As far as I know, it is because the current gen of Russian tanks were designed for how they envisioned WW3 40 years ago [1]. Basically the tanks would follow nuclear strikes, and making humans load the ammunition would make them die a lot quicker from radiation, so they made an autoloader.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_to_the_River_Rhine

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#36

>> The Russian Army has shown that it is not competent in combined arms fire and maneuver. Doctrine and training are paramount, together with command and control that's what enabled the early German successes in WW1. And in the case of France a ton of luck. The article asks the right question: is the role of the tank still needed? A Javelin neutralizes a tank, under the right conditions, it doesn't replace it.

I saw some tanker on twitter explaining just how bad the Russian tactics with their tanks are. Poor training, poor logistics, and undermanned. Tanks get such poor gas mileage that they need tons of support. Extremely effective weapons when used properly but clearly Russia is not doing that.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#37
post #4

Something I've been thinking about is that with the emergence of weapons like the NLAW and Javelin, the Secret Service probably will have to rethink the security of the US president.

No need for heavy weapons, a pistol or a rifle and a picked time will still get you a decent shot at anyone in government. It's almost as if they're not actually scared of the population they live with. Its not like the President / etc are actually all that important. The Government is more than them, and will live on and continue doing the objectionable stuff regardless.

Huh?! Have you seen the security detail of the US president? They're very afraid of their citizens – or at least of the occasional nutjob. And rightly so, as evidenced by the various assassination attempts in the last decades.

> Its not like the President / etc are actually all that important. The Government is more than them, and will live on and continue doing the objectionable stuff regardless.

The US president is a very important symbol and therefore a potential target, even though the whole of the US government consists of much more than just that one person.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#38

Quoted post unavailable.

Unlike in Russia, there is no singular "media" in the west. There are "western media s ", plural, and you have the luxury of choosing your bias. There are plenty of idiots in the west who will sell you re-furbished Russian propaganda, if that's what you want. (Is CNN stupid? Yes, it is, it's the same crap hysterical entertainment-news it has always been, mostly laughable to non-Americans and Americans alike. But ther…

No post body was provided.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#39
post #30

The truly obsolete weapons platform is the $1.2 trillion manned F-35 program. A multi-role fighter that is too expensive to fly in this new combat space and cannot survive the multitude of anti-air missiles. The drone air war is a numbers game and unmanned fighters are both cheaper and have better operational specs.

Are there any air superiority combat drones operational yet? I won't argue that it seems likely that manned dogfights are going to die eventually, but that moment also seems at least a decade away. Until then a F-35 with long range missiles seems to be one of the more lethal things in the air today, even if it is rather expensive. NATO has like 20x the defense budget compared to Russia though, so it's fine not to hav…

F-35 unit prices are not high and keep getting lower due to the sheer scale of production. Many 4.5 gen fighters are actually more expensive yet less capable than the F-35. Most anti-F-35 arguments are "informed" by the likes of Pierre Sprey.

Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?

#40
post #35
post #2

On that topic: why Russian tanks are so vulnerable to these missiles and explode spectacularly [1]. Basically the canon auto-loads shells, and the shell storage is not in a different compartment than the turret. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/04/01/why-do...

None of these articles seem to mention WHY the tanks are designed this way (although I admit I just searched for keywords). As far as I know, it is because the current gen of Russian tanks were designed for how they envisioned WW3 40 years ago [1]. Basically the tanks would follow nuclear strikes, and making humans load the ammunition would make them die a lot quicker from radiation, so they made an autoloader. [1] h…

The difference seems to be capacity of crew. With an autoloader crew is down to 3, Russians opt to have 4 crew and a cheaper per unit tank. To the Russian Army soldiers have always been expendable.
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