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The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

nytimes.com

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Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#31

Post by throwaway15908 »

revscat wrote: post #13
Fargoan wrote: post #6

I have no sympathy for the cowards who murder with drones. They know that what they're doing is wrong and nobody is forcing them to murder.

I do not know how to put it into words, but the simplistic morality expressed here makes me uncomfortable. While I also find remote controlled war to be abhorrent, nevertheless this attitude seems… overly simplistic?

Imagine a world ... imagine a united states in which people just respect this simple moral of not killing people by any means for any reason. Just imagine.

Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#32

Post by goldenkey »

paganel wrote: post #27

Really now? I know Western newspapers like the NYTimes have become very, very enamoured with the military-industrial complex, and I get that, de facto, the US is at war, but why should anyone feel sorry for the people mentioned in the article, people whose mission is to kill some poor peasants herding their goats in the mountains of Yemen or who are attending a wedding somewhere in Afghanistan?

The same reason that the workers at slaughterhouses deserve pity. Even vegans understand they undergo PTSD and injuries to keep a machine going. No person is suited for these jobs.

Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#34

Post by torbTurret »

goldenkey wrote: post #32
paganel wrote: post #27

Really now? I know Western newspapers like the NYTimes have become very, very enamoured with the military-industrial complex, and I get that, de facto, the US is at war, but why should anyone feel sorry for the people mentioned in the article, people whose mission is to kill some poor peasants herding their goats in the mountains of Yemen or who are attending a wedding somewhere in Afghanistan?

The same reason that the workers at slaughterhouses deserve pity. Even vegans understand they undergo PTSD and injuries to keep a machine going. No person is suited for these jobs.

I buy that argument maybe during a draft, but not for those volunteering for such duties.

Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#35

Post by goldenkey »

torbTurret wrote: post #34
goldenkey wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason that the workers at slaughterhouses deserve pity. Even vegans understand they undergo PTSD and injuries to keep a machine going. No person is suited for these jobs.

I buy that argument maybe during a draft, but not for those volunteering for such duties.

These are well paying jobs with health insurance and benefits. It's not simple to switch jobs without the requisite degrees or skills.

Referring to working a job as "volunteering" is incredibly naive.

Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#37

Post by thaumasiotes »

spoonjim wrote: post #8
Fargoan wrote: post #6

I have no sympathy for the cowards who murder with drones. They know that what they're doing is wrong and nobody is forcing them to murder.

Remember that half the population has an IQ under 100 and half of those live in places where the American Soldier is still venerated as a paragon of virtue and sacrifice. They’re not victims like the Yemeni kids they’re killing, but they are being manipulated into the situations they choose for themselves.

> Remember that half the population has an IQ under 100

It's more than half.

Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#38

Post by b3nji »

drno123 wrote: post #36

If we boycott Russian products, and do not hire Russian people, should we start doing the same with US products and american engineers?

It seems this is a logical path that has now been set, doesn't it? I've been deeply ashamed of my own countries invasions, and wars along side the U.S. People didn't care about that though.

Should we cancel ourselves, as we have done to Russia?

Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#39

Post by flyinglizard »

throwaway15908 wrote: post #31
revscat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know how to put it into words, but the simplistic morality expressed here makes me uncomfortable. While I also find remote controlled war to be abhorrent, nevertheless this attitude seems… overly simplistic?

Imagine a world ... imagine a united states in which people just respect this simple moral of not killing people by any means for any reason. Just imagine.

Imagine a world where the US navy doesn’t sail all seas, where there are no US troops around the world, no NATO or Military Industrial Complex.

That’s not a world that I, as a Westerner, would want to live in.

Re: The casualties at the other end of the remote-controlled kill

#40

Post by watwut »

missedthecue wrote: post #12
VictorPath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the problem was how to overcome not so much their conscience as the animal pity by which all normal men are affected in the presence of physical suffering. The trick used by Himmler--who apparently was rather strongly afflicted with these instinctive reactions himself--was very simple and probably very effective; it consisted in turning these instincts around, as it were, in directing them toward the self. So t…

Wow this is interesting. Is that a hypothesis or is that according to Himmler's own account?

Himmler killed himself right after being captured, before being investigated right after WWII. So, safe guess is that it is hypothesis. It can not possibly be after war reflection.

Himmler was horrified and mentally affected after mass shooting he seen. So, he started to figure out how to kill Jews differently, out of worry for mental health of German soldiers.

So, the above is at best him figuring out how to kill more effectively. Definitely not some kind of guilt or regret.

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