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Why your new programming language won't work

colinm.org

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Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#31

Post by srl »

I actually read this the opposite way from the way the rest of you ([ ] appear to be [ ] are ) reading it.

No language dodges all of these checkboxes - or even 70% of them, really. I mean, just look at the "Unfortunately, your language (has/lacks)" list. A language which correctly had or lacked all of those as appropriate (jeezus - jut determining what the correct combination is would light half the blagoblag on fire...) would obviously be quite sucky.

The point, then, is that no language can make it through this checklist - and no language should have to. If your objection can be found on this checklist, and you don't have anything significant to add, then your feedback isn't really helping, is it?

Your feedback

[ ] Can be expressed as a linear sum of items on this checklist (see "trash can")

[ ] Cannot be expressed as such (see "internet")

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#32

Post by slowpoke »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #24

I can pretty much tell anyone who asks why your new programming language won't work. Its because people like me, the used C for 15 years, Perl for 10, and can't stand Python/Ruby/C#/OtherNewFangledLanguage types... simply do not care about your language. Yup, its that simple. If you can't hook the guys who've been around the block a few times, what hope does your language have?

>and can't stand Python/Ruby/C#/OtherNewFangledLanguage types

Can you not stand them because you tried them and decided that they don't fit you, or because you refuse to acknowledge progress?

I won't commit an appeal to novelty by claiming that new programming languages will always be better, but to stubbornly stick to C, Perl or other good ol' languages for no other reason but waving your cane at the new kids in town is equally as close-minded.

The world of programming is so interesting precisely because there are always new things to explore, recent inventions and innovations to marvel and old concepts to learn, rediscover and improve.

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#33

Post by davesims »

Cushman wrote: post #13

I understand how it gets here, but I wish people wouldn't upvote this kind of pointless pandering. I'm sure it has a place somewhere, but it's not HN. Some new things fail because of obvious flaws. Some fail because of non-obvious flaws. A very few things succeed despite both kinds. Nothing succeeds because it's perfect-- and that includes every programming language we use today. If there's one thing HN drills into o…

I'm not sure I understand where the pandering was, and for me the post certainly wasn't pointless, I learned some new things, and it provoked me to think deeper about the difficulty of language design.

I read it as a humorous warning to would-be language designers of the challenges and pitfalls of coming up with a new syntax, compiler, runtime, etc. A quick run-through of the items in the checklist should give you a hint these guys seem to know what they're talking about. Click the bio links above the article and those suspicions will be confirmed.

Sure there's a bit of snark here, but it serves a purpose, as does the humor. They obviously put some thought and time into this, they have some strong and worthwhile opinions about language design and the expertise to back it up.

Now, if it were Zed Shaw or Joe Damato up there, I'd totally agree with you. Kidding!!

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#34

Post by [deleted] »

Cushman wrote: post #13

I understand how it gets here, but I wish people wouldn't upvote this kind of pointless pandering. I'm sure it has a place somewhere, but it's not HN. Some new things fail because of obvious flaws. Some fail because of non-obvious flaws. A very few things succeed despite both kinds. Nothing succeeds because it's perfect-- and that includes every programming language we use today. If there's one thing HN drills into o…

[deleted]

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#35

Post by michaelchisari »

drblast wrote: post #10

About ten years ago, a similar checklist was the default response to proposed solutions to spam problems. And then someone wrote a proposal that checked many of the boxes on that list, but had the odd feature of actually working quite well. I think that guy quit went on to start a news web site. I guess he was discouraged by the checklist.

Pardon my naivete, but what are you referring to?

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#36

Post by caf »

jQueryIsAwesome wrote: post #22
dextorious wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I understand how it gets here, but I wish people wouldn't upvote this kind of pointless pandering. I'm sure it has a place somewhere, but it's not HN." Should HN only reserve a place for the other kind of pointless pandering, the one the article mocks?

People trying to improve things should be encouraged; even if they always fail; and if its related to programming it should be here. People that mock those people should be taken as amateur comedians, and should be on reddit (not here).

The really clever part about this is that it's hard to tell whether it's mocking people trying to design new programming languages, or mocking people who criticise attempts to design new programming languages... or perhaps even both at the same time.

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#37

Post by nostrademons »

michaelchisari wrote: post #35
drblast wrote: post #10

About ten years ago, a similar checklist was the default response to proposed solutions to spam problems. And then someone wrote a proposal that checked many of the boxes on that list, but had the odd feature of actually working quite well. I think that guy quit went on to start a news web site. I guess he was discouraged by the checklist.

Pardon my naivete, but what are you referring to?

http://www.paulgraham.com/spam.html

http://news.ycombinator.com/

http://arclanguage.org/

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#38

Post by Miky »

bitops wrote: post #29
Cushman wrote: post #13

I understand how it gets here, but I wish people wouldn't upvote this kind of pointless pandering. I'm sure it has a place somewhere, but it's not HN. Some new things fail because of obvious flaws. Some fail because of non-obvious flaws. A very few things succeed despite both kinds. Nothing succeeds because it's perfect-- and that includes every programming language we use today. If there's one thing HN drills into o…

I agree and thank you for writing this reply. As of late I notice that the one phrase that is guaranteed to set me off is the phrase "that won't work" or "that's not going to work". My reaction is always: "okay...you took the time to tear it down but not the time to think through why things were done that way". It's easy to see flaws, but much harder to suggest alternative (and improved) solutions.

I'm pretty sure you agree with the post. Hint: the author is being ironic.

Re: Why your new programming language won't work

#39

Post by pivo »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #24

I can pretty much tell anyone who asks why your new programming language won't work. Its because people like me, the used C for 15 years, Perl for 10, and can't stand Python/Ruby/C#/OtherNewFangledLanguage types... simply do not care about your language. Yup, its that simple. If you can't hook the guys who've been around the block a few times, what hope does your language have?

Luckily most people's language options haven't ossified like yours. I'm sorry to say that sounds awfully boring. Learning a new, interesting language is one of the most rewarding and enjoyable things I do.
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