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From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

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Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#31

Post by lnxg33k1 »

farseer wrote: post #23

Honestly this doesn't sound too bad. You seem to have volunteered for a lot of assignments and it seems you were fairly well compensated. Once AirBnb becomes even bigger, the midnight code runs will end just like they have mostly ended in the likes of Microsoft and Google. Remember folks taking care of your mental health and avoiding burnout is your own responsibility. In this case, taking on less responsibility was…

Yeah I had the impression the guy has underlying issues regardless of Airbnb, and I've met many who put themselves on a pedestal thinking that others will worship them because they can work until 9 pm and then complaining that they're tired.. the world is such a weird place

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#32

Post by anon2020dot00 »

Excellent article. The biggest thing that I got is that AirBNB doesn't have a healthy culture. It seems like AirBNB is trying to foster a family-like environment where-in there is no division between work and life and that work is life.

Basically a common tactic of corporations is to espouse "we are a family" but it is just a manipulation tactic for employees to work long-hours and to give their all to the company. The "we are a family" mantra would be fine if it was coupled with a healthy separation of work and life; with the biggest indicator being that healthy working hours (around regular 8 to 9 work hours only) is maintained.

In contrast, something like Netflix culture which is "we are a team and not a family" seems like to be more of a healthier alternative. On a last point, the "we are a family" (i.e. we care about our employees as persons instead of just means or cogs) mantra is fine but it usually turns into "we are a toxic family" (i.e. give your all to the company) instead of it being a "we are a healthy family" (i.e. our company values each employee).

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#33

Post by prox »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #25
beckingz wrote: post #2

Corporations will never love you. No matter how much they say they do, they never will. Individuals within the company will intend to do good, but they will be required to do more than just good things. Take care of yourself.

So hard to finally accept this. I would tell myself "Maybe this company is different", "Maybe this department is different", or "Maybe my team is different." Every time it was a fantasy. Sometimes it can happen for a month or a year, but the hourglass always runs out. The belt tightens, and dollars are squeezed from somewhere. Eventually the squeeze finds you and it's time to jump ship or quickly learn how to set bou…

Took me ages to found a diamond amongst the coal. This boss payed himself after everyone else was paid. A boss who is perfect with planning. Great projects. It’s a masterclass in running and leading a company.

For all other companies always reciprocate their loyalty. If there is none from their side, don’t invest in the company.

When you are just starting out fresh from study you still believe in the “we can do this team if only we work a bit harder.” , but that’s usually a myth.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#34

Post by wly_cdgr »

farseer wrote: post #23

Honestly this doesn't sound too bad. You seem to have volunteered for a lot of assignments and it seems you were fairly well compensated. Once AirBnb becomes even bigger, the midnight code runs will end just like they have mostly ended in the likes of Microsoft and Google. Remember folks taking care of your mental health and avoiding burnout is your own responsibility. In this case, taking on less responsibility was…

No, that's not fair or reasonable. A decent (I mean that in both the moral and competence senses) manager understands that it's part of their job to protect naive and emotionally vulnerable junior employees from exploiting themselves

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#35

Post by menzoic »

farseer wrote: post #23

Honestly this doesn't sound too bad. You seem to have volunteered for a lot of assignments and it seems you were fairly well compensated. Once AirBnb becomes even bigger, the midnight code runs will end just like they have mostly ended in the likes of Microsoft and Google. Remember folks taking care of your mental health and avoiding burnout is your own responsibility. In this case, taking on less responsibility was…

It seems like this is a large part of the issue. He mentioned a few times he was promoted and well compensated. In order to get promoted you have to "exceed" expectations for your current level, which by definition means he went above and beyond what would have been normally been expected of him. Looking at his LinkedIn he got promoted from Mid level to Senior, to Staff engineer. Very few people at big tech companies achieve Staff engineer level.

His LinkedIn also says he joined Airbnb in 2016 which means his stock is worth multiple millions since IPO.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#36

Post by prox »

anon2020dot00 wrote: post #32

Excellent article. The biggest thing that I got is that AirBNB doesn't have a healthy culture. It seems like AirBNB is trying to foster a family-like environment where-in there is no division between work and life and that work is life. Basically a common tactic of corporations is to espouse "we are a family" but it is just a manipulation tactic for employees to work long-hours and to give their all to the company. T…

One simple protip for the newly starters : don’t believe the hype. Don’t EVER buy into overwork “to take one for the team”. A small crunch at the end of a deadline : fine. A perpetual overwork culture is not something a family would do to you.

Also look at what a company does instead of what it says.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#37

Post by 1123581321 »

Aperocky wrote: post #17
cactus2093 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler alert: we mostly are. Engineers with 5 YOE are making $500k+ a year at these companies because they are generating much more than that in revenues and profits for the companies. Airbnb is worth $110B. It's not all blinking cursors, there are thousands of little experiments going on all the time. Increasing the number of bookings by 2% here, 3% there. Increasing the average price of bookings. Random extra feat…

> Increasing the number of bookings by 2% here, 3% there. I've always felt that there is a dilemma in this space. Any number of small UI features can claim a small increase that are often just noise and curated data (assuming no malicious baking), the cumulative increase isn't even close what the claims stacks up to. The only fundamental way for a business to make more money is to invent actual, new feature and busin…

You raise a point companies should take seriously (making sure the improvements are substantial) and are wrong that the only way is new features.

From a company’s perspective, the PMs and devs good at optimizing existing features already exist. Why not hire them to work alongside and behind the devs and PMs good at developing new capabilities?

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#38

Post by billllll »

anon2020dot00 wrote: post #32

Excellent article. The biggest thing that I got is that AirBNB doesn't have a healthy culture. It seems like AirBNB is trying to foster a family-like environment where-in there is no division between work and life and that work is life. Basically a common tactic of corporations is to espouse "we are a family" but it is just a manipulation tactic for employees to work long-hours and to give their all to the company. T…

Netflix emphasizes "team" over "family" to explicitly promote an environment where getting fired is easy. Is that really a better alternative?

Whether it is a "family" or a "team," you can be assured that the company will be looking out for itself first and foremost, potentially to the detriment of the employees. I don't think that's necessarily bad, but you as an individual need to watch out for yourself no matter what rhetoric the company uses.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#39

Post by ta3411 »

I am going to be voted down into oblivion but it's okay. This is my throwaway account anyway. Here are my 3 pragmatic takes regarding this situation:

- If you are an engineer, your total comp is easily north of $200,000. At that pay scale compared to other careers, I expect (and I did) to burn through the night as needed. That's a lot of money for anyone to expect to have a comfortable work/life balance. I always compare myself with doctors residency, accountants, or labor jobs, who would do a lot more work for a lot less. Tech pay, benefit, and work/life balance are outrageously good in my opinion.

- I have worked at AirBnB, Stripe, and Robinhood. And between the 3, AirBnB actually has the chillest work culture. It's known to be "too much democratic debate vs work output". But your experience may be different.

- Most importantly: Just as much as you can quit the company whenever you like, companies can also lay you off whenever they want. My main takeaway is to take care of yourself. Don't buy into Airfam or company family. You do what's right for you and company does what's right for them. (I can't comment on the specifics if Airbnb layoff was the right business move).

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#40

Post by pabs3 »

quanticle wrote: post #22
cactus2093 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler alert: we mostly are. Engineers with 5 YOE are making $500k+ a year at these companies because they are generating much more than that in revenues and profits for the companies. Airbnb is worth $110B. It's not all blinking cursors, there are thousands of little experiments going on all the time. Increasing the number of bookings by 2% here, 3% there. Increasing the average price of bookings. Random extra feat…

From Dan Luu's excellent blog post on the value of in-house expertise [1]: Another reason to have in-house expertise in various areas is that they easily pay for themselves, which is a special case of the generic argument that large companies should be larger than most people expect because tiny percentage gains are worth a large amount in absolute dollars. If, in the lifetime of the specialist team like the kernel t…

Another article along similar lines:

https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/

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