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Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

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Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. It is an inability to properly assess one's competence. These people do not think they are "merely average", they think they are the bottom of the barrel, and those thoughts lead to serious behavioral issues and the condition might degrade to a generalized anxiety disorder or depression. I'd recommend focusing on what people say and do instead of what…

In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things. My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcom…

> In the broad societal sense I’m talking about, people with imposter syndrome do not believe they’re the bottom of the barrel, maybe they believe they’re at the bottom of a given organization or trade but being at the bottom of such things is not that bad in the grand scheme of things.

I know people with imposter syndrome. They do believe they're the worst, that they are just fooling everyone and that someone is going to find out. That they're not valid at all for whatever it is they're doing, no matter what that is. It's not just about low self-esteem, and it isn't extremely rare to see it similar signs outside of a work context (relationships, study, hobbies).

> My lack of belief in imposter syndrome is only strengthened by people advocating they believe in it out of concern for negative outcomes if we did not deny it as that creates an obvious bias. Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way).

"Believing in it out of concern"? Honestly, you have absolutely no idea about this issue. I've seen the real consequences of this. It's not just about believing they're out of place, but the behavioral changes those irrational thoughts bring. From the mild ones such as slowing down their careers because they don't think they're worthy to take on new opportunities, or reduced work performance, to serious ones like complete decision paralysis or extreme overpreparation to the point of neglecting other aspects of their life, and it can evolve to serious anxiety and depression disorders with all the consequences those have.

> Depressed people also have more objective views of their own performance than non-depressed people (they are irrational in some ways, but not THIS way).

Imposter syndrome and depression are different things. Clearly you don't know what the disorder is and yet you feel you're perfectly qualified to dismiss it as a non-existing thing.

You can think you're bad at your job and that doesn't necessarily mean it's imposter syndrome. You might even think you're actually an imposter and that those around you think better of you than you actually are and it still doesn't mean it's imposter syndrome 100%. If the assessment is more or less accurate and specially if you can deal with that in a healthy way, it's not imposter syndrome. That's the issue, that's why it's a disorder. It's not about "the thought" but about the thought being irrational and immovable by evidence, and about the actual effects and disruptions those thoughts have on the daily life of the person.

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#32
Sooo no way to win here, according to this edgy take. This philosophy, where any expression of stress is just a ploy, seems like a great way to prevent people from reaching out to each other for help with the psychological pressures of intense work environments, thus making it all worse.

Re: Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are an imposter? (2020) [pdf]

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>implicit notion is that your worthiness is so obvious Where do you get the idea that this is part of imposter syndrome? The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary. That your own experience with people making the claim has been from people from elite schools/jobs/etc. doesn't prove anything about imposter syndrome…

> The whole concept of imposter syndrome is that it's an irrationally held belief and the person doesn't feel worthy despite evidence to the contrary. So in other words the concept with imposter syndrome is that peoples worthiness is obvious? It would be impossible for me to deny that there must be somebody out there with irrationally low self esteem, yet the fact that imposter syndrome MOSTLY affects people of privi…

>So in other words the concept with imposter syndrome is that peoples worthiness is obvious?

I really don't know how you are getting to that interpretation of what I wrote. Imposter syndrome is literally the opposite: That to the people who experience imposter syndrome, their worthiness is not obvious to themselves even given ample evidence.

You are also mixing together two separate concepts, even if they are somewhat related. Imposter syndrome is not simply about self esteem. A successful person can know & feel they are competent and at the same time believe they don't deserve what they have compared to others who are just as good but didn't have the advantages. Or a person can have low self-esteem but still know they're good at their job. It's not all or nothing. Imposter syndrome is something much more specific. It often pertains more to feelings of professional incompetence, and in particular that the person has committed a kind of trickery or fraud to get where they are.

>Nobody will ever go into a therapists office, tell them they think they’re an imposter, and be told “yup sure seems that way, may as well make the best of it”.

>It’s taken as a just-so foregone conclusion that if you are experiencing imposter syndrome, you’re irrational

You seem to think this is wrong, it is not. Take a step back for a second and consider this statement: "It is irrational to believe something when it runs counter to strong evidence." That seems correct to me. Would you agree beliefs that contradict strong evidence are irrational? Well, the definition of imposter syndrome is that the person believes they're an imposter even when that belief runs counter to all available evidence. Think of four categories of people:

1) A person is not an imposter, and does not feel like one. This is not imposter syndrome

2) A person believes they are an imposter, and they actually are an imposter: They knowingly lie, forged their resume, etc. This is also not imposter syndrome

3) A person does not believe they're an imposter, but they truly are incompetent, know very little about their jobs, and don't even realize how awful they are. This is also not imposter syndrome In fact it's more like the opposite, perhaps Dunning Kruger.

4) A person is great at their job. They get constant praise, rise the career ladder, has provably & tangible beneficial work attributed to them, but still for some reason they feel like they are faking it, that it all comes from luck and deception. This is imposter syndrome

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