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Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

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Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#31

Post by heavenlyblue »

scrollaway wrote: post #19

A small tip to HN readers: Whataboutism is key to Russian propaganda. I'm not saying people here are Russian trolls, but if your key reaction to "What's happening in Ukraine is shit and we need to do something NOW" is to say "Oh but what about what the US did in the past?", you're amplifying Russian propaganda, and it may be because you've been hearing Russian-funded articles/media, directly or indirectly. Nothing, i…

I really like the fact that now that RT is banned everybody read the same western articles and are attributing the whole dissent within Europe/US to Russia.

Where have you been when RT was doing that brazenly in front of your faces with full acceptance of the governments?

It's quite frankly amusing that it took Russia an invasion of Ukraine for that to become illegal, while before (Brexit, etc) it was just "freedom of speech".

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#32

Post by refurb »

88840-8855 wrote: post #12
cyberpunk wrote: post #2

So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…

What do you expect? The Russians are a pretty comfy enemy. From Call of Duty over Mission Impossible, we are familiar to the evil Russian, hence, those reactions are so satisfying to too many people, unfortunately. I have Ukranian/Russian roots. My girl, born in Germany, was just pushed by classmates and called nasty words just last week in school. This reminds me of the racism against Asian people when Covid appeare…

Pretty much. San Francisco fired the SF Symphony Director because... he's from Russia.

Amazing how quickly our base, tribal instincts kick in when an "enemy" appears. All pretense to "peace" and "restraint" and "avoid foreign wars" goes out the window really damn quick.

If you're the kind of person who looks back and thinks "man, how could America be so stupid to get involved in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq"? Well, you're living in those times right now.

Hell, that's exactly why we put the Japanese in internment camps. Looks like a pretty good portion of HN would support that even now.

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#33

Post by newsclues »

cyberpunk wrote: post #2

So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…

Here in Canada our government seized protesters money and the crowds cheered.

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#34

Post by Tenoke »

raverbashing wrote: post #21
cyberpunk wrote: post #2

So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…

> just OK to seize private property of individuals Yes, it's a war. Deal with it If they have a problem they can take it up with their boss. > to this is getting pretty fucking scary I believe there are kids in Ukraine who are legitimately scared. Getting your megayacht confiscated is just a first world problem.

>Yes, it's a war. Deal with it

The countries doing the seizing aren't at war with Russia and seem adamant about currently not being at war.

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#35

Post by baq »

cyberpunk wrote: post #2

So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…

they are not individuals. they are the Russian state.

i agree it's a fine line, but then, these people are undermining western democracies and at the same time seek safety in them. they assumed their assets would be safe and tried to max their payouts.

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#36

Post by asimpletune »

I just want to remind those who are talking about due process that this is about crowd sourcing where assets of Russian oligarchs are. That is not the same thing as denying them due process. In other words, it's just a website.

On the other hand, the actual due process part happen when the actual authorities of those countries, follow the laws of their country, and seize those assets because of sanctions.

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#38

Post by dotancohen »

scrollaway wrote: post #19

A small tip to HN readers: Whataboutism is key to Russian propaganda. I'm not saying people here are Russian trolls, but if your key reaction to "What's happening in Ukraine is shit and we need to do something NOW" is to say "Oh but what about what the US did in the past?", you're amplifying Russian propaganda, and it may be because you've been hearing Russian-funded articles/media, directly or indirectly. Nothing, i…

You are wrong.

If a nation does something that other nations do, it is completely unjustified to pretend that their actions are wrong. The international community normalizes actions through actions. You might not like the fact that some particular action is normalized but you cannot suddenly villianize a nation for doing the same that other ("our allies") nations do regularly.

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#39

Post by gambler »

A lot of these "oligarchs" have citizenships of European countries. (Which, in my opinion, they shouldn't have been given in the first place, but that's an entirely different conversation.) So in many cases people are effectively cheering for extra-judicial property seizure of European citizens. The consequences of setting such precedent will go way beyond the scope of the current conflict.

Re: Mapping and Seizing the Oligarchs' Assets

#40

Post by qaq »

cyberpunk wrote: post #2

So now it's just OK to seize private property of individuals without any even pretend due process? Of course these individuals have links to their government, you think you can find some rich Americans who aren't somehow linked to their government? And now we have american media platforms saying 'yeah, it's fine to call for death to Russians'. Our response to this is getting pretty fucking scary. We need to start dia…

It warms my heart this is the biggest worry on your mind at the moment. It's not beign seized though for now just frozen. Many of the so called "Olygarchs" are nominal holders of Putin's personal wealth btw.
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