Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

procedural.medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 57 posts

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#31

Post by credit_guy »

MrDisposable wrote: post #6

I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…

If you remember history, there was a guy who attacked Sweden, unprovoked [1]. Who ended beating the crap out of the Swedish army at Poltava, and marked the beginning of the modern Russian Empire. I'm not sure what spin this was given to Russian kids in the history class to qualify it as defensive war.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Northern_War

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#32

Post by kaczordon »

lmilcin wrote: post #30
MrDisposable wrote: post #6

I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…

That identity has already been built on a lie. Russia invaded Poland on September 17th 1939 after secret deal with Germany to split Polish territory they agreed on before the war even started. Then Russians cried foul when the bigger bully betrayed them. Unfortunately allies could not let Nazis overrun Soviets because with access to oil fields Nazis could make Europe their fortress. And so Soviet crimes were overlook…

Not to mention Russia basically re-invading Poland as the Nazis were defeated and then establishing communism there. They also famously paused their army across the river while the Nazis razed Warsaw to the ground.

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#33

Post by unmole »

0x737368 wrote: post #27
ledauphin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not cringe to posit (yes, even in flowery language) that world leaders sometimes make decisions that don't resolve to pure dollars and cents. That mythos actually drives the hearts and minds of people all around the world including in Moscow.

That's partially true for propaganda used to drive population's support, politicians of that caliber don't get to their positions by being hopeless romantics and idealists.

I don't think the idea is that Putin is a hopeless romantic. It's that he's a deranged megalomaniac.

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#34

Post by torstenvl »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #21
torstenvl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there are ethnic ties between them. That doesn't mean they are identical, or that one should rule the other. Should Scotland rule Ireland (or vice versa) because they are both Gaelic peoples that were part of the British Empire?

I said nothing about 'should'. Simply history. Ukraine was never a 'country' until briefly in the 20's then the 90's. Ukrainians have been Rus, or Russians, or Ruthenians, etc... for most of their history. They were once a single people. That's just a fact. The differences in identity are the fact that western Ukraine has at times belonged to Austria-Hungary or Poland. Or the fact the Cossacks carved out small states…

Ruthenia was called Ruthenia because it was in the West, and part of the Polish-Lithuanian Empire, so went by the Latin name for Rus. Russia is derived from the Greek. Even centuries ago they were distinct.

And before then, before there were nation-states as we think of them now, the principality of Kyiv was distinct from the principality of Mosovy. Kyiv was not subordinated to Moscow until Peter, Elizabeth, and Catherine, in the 1600s and 1700s -- more than a millennium after Kyiv's founding.

The history is not made up.

https://www.timemaps.com/history/russia-979ad/

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#35

Post by xrd »

MrDisposable wrote: post #6

I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…

I'm American, and I'll go with you, my brother.

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#36

Post by 0x737368 »

unmole wrote: post #33
0x737368 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's partially true for propaganda used to drive population's support, politicians of that caliber don't get to their positions by being hopeless romantics and idealists.

I don't think the idea is that Putin is a hopeless romantic. It's that he's a deranged megalomaniac.

The reason you're thinking of him as "deranged" is because American propaganda would rather omit the reasons for going to war that I've listed in the parent comment because that would make NATO and therefore the US also partially to blame for what's happening in Ukraine.

I assure you - Putin is not deranged.

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#37

Post by yongjik »

MrDisposable wrote: post #6

I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…

> The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude.

Don't despair: this idea of a "peaceful defender" was never an objective truth to begin with. I suspect a lot of countries feed similar sentiment to their children. My country (South Korea) certainly did.

A country needs good people who fight to keep it straight. Maybe Russia needs people like you.

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#38

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #10
Koshkin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a nation of defenders Nonsense. Russian history is full of invasions. That is how empires are created, and that is their mode of existence.

To be fair, more often than not, Russia was on the receiving end of invasions. Even when they invaded others, it was often in response to being invaded first. Look at how the Russian empire formed: it was Moscow re-taking all the Kyivan Rus lands that were conquered by Muslim invaders. Or all the European countries that attacked/invaded Russian lands: Great Britain, France, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Poland-Lithuania…

I'm pretty sure that Russia didn't make it all the way to Vladivostok by "defending its own lands" or "re-taking all the Kyivan Rus lands".

What you say may be true in the west. It's not true of Russia's expansion east of the Urals.

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#39

Post by AnimalMuppet »

0x737368 wrote: post #25

This is very cringe. To even imagine that the reason a country got invaded, knowing full well the repercussions that will follow, was because jealous old Putin got all shaky with impotent rage that his beautiful girlfriend called Ukraine with a blue dress and flaxen hair has left him. The first reason Russia invaded Ukraine is because Ukraine joining NATO(in before "but Ukraine could never have joined NATO!!" - yes i…

Yeah, about Crimea... you do remember that Russia took that earlier, right? Why do you have a problem with NATO (or Ukraine without NATO) taking it back?

And, no, Ukraine was not joining NATO. If you have evidence otherwise, supply something more than "look it up".

Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce

#40

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jchiu1106 wrote: post #20
livinglist wrote: post #2

not really in favor of this characterizing countries thing. it’s like how China calls Hongkong it’s child and it finally was returned to its mother in 1997. Nowadays same terminology is applied to Taiwan, I’m just disgusted by this figure of speech, saying China is a mother and hongkong and Taiwan are her children just signals that you don’t want to treat them with respect in the first place. Same thing with this sto…

Considering how mainland China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC) are separated, they're more like siblings, with ROC being the elder one.

ROC is the original government of the whole of China (mainland plus Taiwan). PRC is the johnny-come-lately rebels. So I'd say that ROC is not only the elder, the PRC is the illegitimate half-brother.
Post reply on HN