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Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

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Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#31

Post by Bud »

gyardley wrote: post #17

It's perfectly possible for Facebook to not track users at the moment and simultaneously prepare for a future where this is not only acceptable, it's expected. Facebook has placed a long-term bet that people will willingly share pretty much everything they do. When they file patents like this, they're skating where the puck is headed, not where it is now.

Yeah. It's also possible, and indeed true, that Facebook is lying through its teeth, aggressively tracking now while claiming not to, introducing ever-more-pervasive and invasive tracking without notifying users or giving them an informed choice in the matter, thus forcibly paving the way for the future that will place them in the most powerful position.

Let's be real. Facebook has not "placed a long-term bet"; they are actively engineering that reality right now, despite loud and frequent objections from users.

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#32

Post by william42 »

X-Istence wrote: post #23
qx24b wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only so long as facebook doesn't use flash cookies as those are cross browser. (Or you constantly delete flash cookies)

Luckily we live in a world where Flash is no longer a real requirement for most websites, and browsing with it completely disabled, or even uninstalled is not an issue.

Flashblock is a wonderful thing.

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#33

Post by sixtofour »

stfu wrote: post #20
jeggers5 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or, a different browser on a proxy :P

Like that idea. One should be able to create some "rules" for a browser, e.g. that any Facebook related url is going to be opened in a "clean" browser space. Ideally where one can attribute certain basics, such as proxies beforehand.

Would that include pages that don't have anything to do with Facebook except that they have a Like button?

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#34

Post by orijing »

I'm not a patent lawyer, but I tried reading the patent application (http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...).

It sounds like Facebook Connect/open graph, where you can Like something on a third party domain, or read something, etc. Is it just saying "You will now have an activity feed for all your likes, etc on third party websites on your timeline"? The 9/22 F8 date seems to suggest that.

But HN is a lot more skeptical than I am. Are you just worried that it may mean different things in the future? What's the deal?

It also sounds like "Don't try this, Google. It's my turf"

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#35

Post by alain94040 »

orijing wrote: post #34

I'm not a patent lawyer, but I tried reading the patent application ( http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec... ). It sounds like Facebook Connect/open graph, where you can Like something on a third party domain, or read something, etc. Is it just saying "You will now have an activity feed for all your likes, etc on third party websites on your timeline"? The 9/22 F8 date seems to suggest that. But…

No, this was filed in February, and is automatically made public 6 months later. Nothing to do with f8.

Also, I can think of definite prior art for this, from a company called Google. I did read the claims.

So not much to worry about, as usual.

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#36

Post by gyardley »

Bud wrote: post #31
gyardley wrote: post #17

It's perfectly possible for Facebook to not track users at the moment and simultaneously prepare for a future where this is not only acceptable, it's expected. Facebook has placed a long-term bet that people will willingly share pretty much everything they do. When they file patents like this, they're skating where the puck is headed, not where it is now.

Yeah. It's also possible, and indeed true, that Facebook is lying through its teeth, aggressively tracking now while claiming not to, introducing ever-more-pervasive and invasive tracking without notifying users or giving them an informed choice in the matter, thus forcibly paving the way for the future that will place them in the most powerful position. Let's be real. Facebook has not "placed a long-term bet"; they…

I agree that Facebook's attained a position of power that lets it actively work towards making its long-term bet a reality. Good for them. I also hope to one day change the world in the direction I'd prefer it to go.

That said, there's no concrete evidence that Facebook is 'lying through its teeth'. If they are, the truth will come out - organizations of thousands can't hide bald-faced lies for long. But it would surprise me, because Facebook as an organization doesn't seem particularly stupid, and getting caught lying about cross-domain tracking (especially given our current activist FTC) would be really, really stupid.

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#37

Post by estel »

asto wrote: post #30
tlrobinson wrote: post #3

Suspicious, sure, but filing a patent doesn't mean they're actually using it.

Sure. And buying a car doesn't mean you go anywhere in it. But usually ...

That might be a valid analogy if we lived in a world where the majority of cars were bought simply to prevent other people from getting it instead.

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#38

Post by alexgartrell »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #19
tybris wrote: post #13

You don't patent something because you built it. You patent something because you think someone else might build it, or because you don't want someone else to prevent you from building it.

Both reasons imply an intention to track users. But there is a third possibility. They could have patented it because they are so convinced that user tracking across websites is evil that they want to save the world from it by preventing others from ever doing it. After all a company that has 600 million users has a responsibility to make sure all these people are not put in harm's way. Just imagine how Mark Zuckerbe…

I'd like to try to respond to this, but I can't, because you've gone out of your way to obscure whatever point you have with three paragraphs of ultra-sarcastic nonsense.

Fundamentally though, I think your point is, "I don't trust Facebook because of statements and privacy mistakes they've made in the past." That's a fine opinion to have (even though I obviously don't agree with it), so please, for the sake of discussion, state it like that instead.

Edited to add that, in response to your first point (the non-sarcastic one), it doesn't necessarily imply an intent to track users. Filing defensive patents is nothing new at FB (Facebook patented the News Feed and hasn't yet sued anyone for infringement).

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#39

Post by incongruity »

eli wrote: post #24
gyardley wrote: post #17

It's perfectly possible for Facebook to not track users at the moment and simultaneously prepare for a future where this is not only acceptable, it's expected. Facebook has placed a long-term bet that people will willingly share pretty much everything they do. When they file patents like this, they're skating where the puck is headed, not where it is now.

Moreover, if you've stumbled on something patentable that could potentially be useful to you (or any competitor) at any point in the future, of course you patent it.

To me this line of thinking lines up precisely with the notion of interest – they see it as something valuable for the future (and happen to be doing it now) – I'm not sure how all of that could lead to any conclusion other than Facebook having very real interest in tracking people.

Re: Facebook claims it does not track users, but files patent to do same

#40

Post by stfu »

sixtofour wrote: post #33
stfu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like that idea. One should be able to create some "rules" for a browser, e.g. that any Facebook related url is going to be opened in a "clean" browser space. Ideally where one can attribute certain basics, such as proxies beforehand.

Would that include pages that don't have anything to do with Facebook except that they have a Like button?

In my case I have these blocked out with NoScript. But if you click on these and are not logged in you are most likely redirected to Facebook, right? So it would just open these in the separate FB environment (i.e. proxy&clean browser).
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