Live data from Hacker News

An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

math.columbia.edu

31–40 of 52 posts

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most grad students at MIT are still honest, but not the most successful ones (most of the ones who find faculty jobs are at least a little bit crooked). While this might be true, I suspect the statistics are not that different from the general population.

Having worked at several F500 multinationals, I can say confidently that, yup, no different from gen pop. They were corrupt as hell. Big SaaS providers offered us 40k each to get on board with some all-in Cloud offerings. I'd bet my hat some of the offshore IT companies we used were throwing kickbacks to Ops Managers. Not speculation, either -- there were executives fired for such things. One set up a shell company a…

FYI: Executives of F500 multinationals are not the "general population."

The competition needed to be an executive at a F500 multinational extreme. There are many good studies on the topic, from "Dictator's Handbook" to "Power." The latter should be read with a grain of salt, but has helpful insights.

Elected politicians -- above some level -- operate under analogous constraints too. If you don't take an election donation in return for political favors, your opponent will.

I think the decline of the integrity of MIT (as for executives and politicians) became inevitable once competition and $$$ reached a certain threshold.

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#32
"As someone who knew a little math, what really drove me bonkers about the college guide was:

(a) the logical absurdity of adding together completely unrelated statistics to produce a single measure of merit — the key point being that you can produce an astonishing range of different results depending on the relative weight each component factor is assigned. And there is simply no logical, a priori basis for establishing such a weighting objectively. Do SAT scores count 30% of the total score? 32.2%? 18.78234%? (How about zero?) It's the classic apples + oranges – bananas/kumquats = fruit salad approach to statistics, and is completely meaningless."

https://budiansky.blogspot.com/2012/02/us-news-root-of-all-e...

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#33
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Columbia should not be ranked 2nd in US news college rankings

Maybe rankings should be organized through preferences of applicants admitted to several schools.

i was answering his question

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#34

This is an amazing takedown by one of Columbia’s own professors. Wow

I can't speak for the math department, but I've noticed that there are general contentions between Columbia's faculty and administration that seem somewhat unique to the school. Professor Martin Chalfie has noted how cramped and run-down his lab is in an interview, which seems like soft-spoken criticism at the way Columbia has failed to use its enormous endowment towards acquiring more research and teaching spaces. P…

The Chemistry Department specifically has horrible infrastructure and a huge part of the problem is that construction is very difficult. NYC isn't a college town like Cambridge or New Haven and Columbia has to pay more to get stuff built and on top of that it's a long process involving multiple constituencies. Just look at how long it took for Columbia's Manhattanville campus to come together.

There are plans in the works to fix these infrastructure issues but the timeline is frustratingly long.

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#35
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you that the student body at MIT generally had a pretty dim view of the admins when I was there, always trying to kill the things that make MIT an amazing place, while building stupidly overpriced vanity buildings. Not to mention the incredibly shameful way they handled the Aaron Swartz case.

I think there were a mix of cases when I was there, with admins sometimes supporting the wonderful weird and other times not. Often when they did, it was because the weird was only a background level of annoying/risky and when they didn’t, it was often that the level of cacophony had exceeded that admin’s tolerance for it.

It got worse: while the admissions office and museum were using MIT hacking culture to attract applicants and advance its brand, the school changed both the type of officers hired for the campus police which is necessary due to its inner city location and started arresting students for attempting to pull off harmless hacks. I also heard some reports they got generally more aggressive towards the student population.

When I was there they hired older, very experienced police officers who were looking for a good, not normally intense final job for their career. So they were generally understanding and fit into the culture.

Aaron Swartz was an entirely different thing. Instead of hammering JSTOR from his own institution of Harvard to the point it blocked the whole campus, he disguised himself demonstrating mens rea, a guilty mind, let himself into a machine room and left behind the laptop to do his act of civil disobedience or whatever. And then proved chronically depressed people have no business committing such crimes. From beginning to end he demonstrated ill intent towards MIT.

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#36
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the math department, but I've noticed that there are general contentions between Columbia's faculty and administration that seem somewhat unique to the school. Professor Martin Chalfie has noted how cramped and run-down his lab is in an interview, which seems like soft-spoken criticism at the way Columbia has failed to use its enormous endowment towards acquiring more research and teaching spaces. P…

In 2022, MIT is a cesspool of fraud and corruption. This wasn't the case a quarter-century ago. The extreme competition seems to be overtaking all of the elites. MIT is the #1 university brand in the world, but it spent most of its integrity and soul to get there. There's a fine line you need to walk to become a faculty member at elite schools. You need to lie a little on grant applications to align when you want to…

Can you provide more context on how MIT spent most of its integrity and soul to build its brand? I went to MIT over a decade ago and I always appreciated how honest, hardworking, and genuinely curious the student body was. Professors always seemed brilliant as well.

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#37

General rankings have limited use. The value of data depends on the interests of the reader, which for college 'rankings' vary widely. For example, if you are interested only in the status of your college degree among the public, then the ranking itself over time and the credibility of US News are probably most valuable, regardless of how they are calculated. But if you are interested in the status of your degree wit…

One interesting thing is the US News College Rankings sues a completely system of measurements than the field-specific rankings, e.g. the US News Computer Science Rankings. The latter is based only on "the judgments of deans and senior faculty members of computer science departments at institutions around the country."

I've been obsessed with computer science rankings for a while, and worked with others to compare US News Computer Science rankings with other computer science rankings: https://drafty.cs.brown.edu/csopenrankings/

Some rankings are naturally harder to game, like that your bachelors or doctoral graduates get hired as professors at other research universities. Or that professors at your universities win best paper awards at leading conferences. So I've been looking at whether various rankings are "biased".

There's some clear biases with US News, like it ranks CalTech as 11, but CalTech is listed as rank 39 in the aggregate because it does poorly on faculty publications and best paper awards. Yale CS is another example of a highly ranked department by US News (rank 20), that has an aggregated ranking of 35. Harvard CS does amazing with placement (ranked 6 for their undergraduate and doctoral students becoming professors), but has an aggregate ranking of 23.

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the math department, but I've noticed that there are general contentions between Columbia's faculty and administration that seem somewhat unique to the school. Professor Martin Chalfie has noted how cramped and run-down his lab is in an interview, which seems like soft-spoken criticism at the way Columbia has failed to use its enormous endowment towards acquiring more research and teaching spaces. P…

The Chemistry Department specifically has horrible infrastructure and a huge part of the problem is that construction is very difficult. NYC isn't a college town like Cambridge or New Haven and Columbia has to pay more to get stuff built and on top of that it's a long process involving multiple constituencies. Just look at how long it took for Columbia's Manhattanville campus to come together. There are plans in the…

Yeah, on one hand I don't think admin are to blame for the delays in acquiring space and development. They have to compete against the enormous cost, enormous time delays, and even their student body who despise gentrification. That said, these delays have definitely contributed to the tensions, as we can see in the difference in relationships with admin held by BME, neuro, and CBS, who were granted space in Manhattanville, vs everyone else.

I don't know too much about NYC development, but Manhattanville seems somewhat unambitious in height, I don't know if that was the limit to Columbia's air rights or what, but it seems like a waste of limited footprint.

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#39
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the math department, but I've noticed that there are general contentions between Columbia's faculty and administration that seem somewhat unique to the school. Professor Martin Chalfie has noted how cramped and run-down his lab is in an interview, which seems like soft-spoken criticism at the way Columbia has failed to use its enormous endowment towards acquiring more research and teaching spaces. P…

In 2022, MIT is a cesspool of fraud and corruption. This wasn't the case a quarter-century ago. The extreme competition seems to be overtaking all of the elites. MIT is the #1 university brand in the world, but it spent most of its integrity and soul to get there. There's a fine line you need to walk to become a faculty member at elite schools. You need to lie a little on grant applications to align when you want to…

> MIT is the #1 university brand in the world

Nah. Maybe 15 years ago.

Re: An Investigation of the Facts Behind Columbia's U.S. News Ranking

#40
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2022, MIT is a cesspool of fraud and corruption. This wasn't the case a quarter-century ago. The extreme competition seems to be overtaking all of the elites. MIT is the #1 university brand in the world, but it spent most of its integrity and soul to get there. There's a fine line you need to walk to become a faculty member at elite schools. You need to lie a little on grant applications to align when you want to…

> MIT is the #1 university brand in the world Nah. Maybe 15 years ago.

The rankings lag reality by quite a lot. I think MIT probably was the #1 university in the world a couple of decades ago, but wasn't ranked ultra-high then. It is ranked ultra-high today.

There's a #1:

https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings

Post reply on HN