Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

nbcnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–39 of 39 posts

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#31

Post by belter »

brigandish wrote: post #28
belter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

If you don't want to defend the claim you made and I responded to, that's fine, I've made my point. However, to try and shift the goalposts while smearing me isn't fine. You don't seem like the average HNer from either your post history nor your behaviour in this very thread. I'm not sure what to make of it, but please, don't continue in this vein.

My original claim, and you just have to follow the thread to see it, is that multiple countries, any democracy, have their Nazi sympathizers. I provided two quotes one from an example from Croatia and another from one of the most repellent individuals ever to set foot in US politics.

You decided to comment on my post history, of behaviour, but I will accept the claim I am not your normal HN:-)

But hey let's keep on the direction you initiated. That Donald Trump is just a misquoted, misunderstood, unfairly portrayed in the media, fine person. It's exactly his claim....

How difficult could it be?

"Take A Side, Mr. President: Nazis Or Not Nazis"

https://youtu.be/Q4sCA3QFqT8

"An Oral History of Trump's Bigotry"

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-r...

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#32

Post by NonEUCitizen »

pelasaco wrote: post #15
h2odragon wrote: post #10

When you're fighting an invasion of your country, its a bad time to quibble about the ideological purity of the other people on your side of the line. It really is possible to find shared goals and cooperate on achieving them with people who do not totally agree with you. Once the immediate threat is addressed, those people might be the next item on the agenda; but this is "stand together or fall separately" territor…

> When you're fighting an invasion of your country, its a bad time to quibble about the ideological purity of the other people on your side of the line. Unless who is trying to propagate this information, works together or for Russia. BTW from HN: https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrainian-jews-push-back-again...

From same publication, in Jan 1:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-of-ukrainian-national...

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#33

Post by pelasaco »

another_why wrote: post #23
pelasaco wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually answered you, not the article. Yo wrote: "I don't think that supporting nazis with arms for a decade and training them to fight is a good idea and ukrainian nazis are not on my "side of the line". I have enough of them where I live, thank you very much. "Immediate threat" my ass." Which doesn't make sense, is just dismissive as the Jews there are actually fighting the War led by a Jewish president. Where i…

> I actually answered you, not the article. Yo wrote: It's hard to understand when you don't quote what you are answering > Which doesn't make sense, is just dismissive as the Jews there are actually fighting the War led by a Jewish president. Where is your argument now https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrainian-jews-push-back-again ... ? How jews fighting the Putin's invasion justifies supplying nazis with arms? Maybe…

> It's hard to understand when you don't quote what you are answering

No it's not. If i want to comment the linked article, i comment directly under the article. If I want to answer you, I reply to you. That's how threaded forums work.

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#34

Post by brigandish »

belter wrote: post #31
brigandish wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to defend the claim you made and I responded to, that's fine, I've made my point. However, to try and shift the goalposts while smearing me isn't fine. You don't seem like the average HNer from either your post history nor your behaviour in this very thread. I'm not sure what to make of it, but please, don't continue in this vein.

My original claim, and you just have to follow the thread to see it, is that multiple countries, any democracy, have their Nazi sympathizers. I provided two quotes one from an example from Croatia and another from one of the most repellent individuals ever to set foot in US politics. You decided to comment on my post history, of behaviour, but I will accept the claim I am not your normal HN:-) But hey let's keep on t…

> But hey let's keep on the direction you initiated. That Donald Trump is just a misquoted, misunderstood, unfairly portrayed in the media, fine person. It's exactly his claim....

That is what is known as a straw man.

You posted something that was easily disproved by video evidence. You then posted something else which was easily disproved by a transcript of the actual exchange instead of one filtered by a journalist that clearly was as interested as you are in truth. You're not interested in whether your claims are correct or not, you'll simply move on to the next one, and I'm not interested in that as I don't have an axe to grind.

> You decided to comment on my post history, of behaviour, but I will accept the claim I am not your normal HN:-)

Yes, because it's strange, I'd expect it of an activist on Twitter. I do hope that you're not the beginning of a change in the kind of people posting here.

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#35

Post by dang »

pelasaco wrote: post #33
another_why wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually answered you, not the article. Yo wrote: It's hard to understand when you don't quote what you are answering > Which doesn't make sense, is just dismissive as the Jews there are actually fighting the War led by a Jewish president. Where is your argument now https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrainian-jews-push-back-again ... ? How jews fighting the Putin's invasion justifies supplying nazis with arms? Maybe…

> It's hard to understand when you don't quote what you are answering No it's not. If i want to comment the linked article, i comment directly under the article. If I want to answer you, I reply to you. That's how threaded forums work.

Would you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? You've been doing it quite a lot lately. In fact it looks like you've been using HN primarily for this, which is a line at which we ban accounts. See these links for explanation:

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#36

Post by dang »

another_why wrote: post #23
pelasaco wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually answered you, not the article. Yo wrote: "I don't think that supporting nazis with arms for a decade and training them to fight is a good idea and ukrainian nazis are not on my "side of the line". I have enough of them where I live, thank you very much. "Immediate threat" my ass." Which doesn't make sense, is just dismissive as the Jews there are actually fighting the War led by a Jewish president. Where i…

> I actually answered you, not the article. Yo wrote: It's hard to understand when you don't quote what you are answering > Which doesn't make sense, is just dismissive as the Jews there are actually fighting the War led by a Jewish president. Where is your argument now https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrainian-jews-push-back-again ... ? How jews fighting the Putin's invasion justifies supplying nazis with arms? Maybe…

Would you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? You've been doing it quite a lot lately. In fact it looks like you've been using HN primarily for this, which is a line at which we ban accounts. See these links for explanation:

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#37

Post by rvz »

belter wrote: post #18
rvz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nazi problem in Croatia definitely fits what the article is describing as found in Ukraine. In the US however, it's hardly comparable or the same thing and the Guardian article has been debunked to death (As the orange man already condemned them years ago which that was cut out by the media). So this is half whataboutism.

Such a lovely person. How could somebody forget, when he invited his opponents to use the same concentration camp era symbol, to target his political opponents. https://hyperallergic.com/573716/trumps-sinister-appropriati...

Conspiracy theories and strange similarities or associations isn't definitive evidence that supports the 'Trump is an actual neo-Nazi' claim. It's just pure speculation.

Perhaps, this is what happens when you keep chasing Nazi conspiracy theories everywhere, especially from Nazi historians dedicated to looking at dog-whistles, symbols etc to associate a person or group to being a 'true' neo-Nazi.

Still Whataboutism.

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#38

Post by another_why »

dang wrote: post #36
another_why wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually answered you, not the article. Yo wrote: It's hard to understand when you don't quote what you are answering > Which doesn't make sense, is just dismissive as the Jews there are actually fighting the War led by a Jewish president. Where is your argument now https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrainian-jews-push-back-again ... ? How jews fighting the Putin's invasion justifies supplying nazis with arms? Maybe…

Would you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? You've been doing it quite a lot lately. In fact it looks like you've been using HN primarily for this, which is a line at which we ban accounts. See these links for explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.co…

Ok bro, point taken. But you will probably need to flag all posts about Ukraine as they are biased and political by design.

Re: Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't

#39

Post by dang »

another_why wrote: post #38
dang wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? You've been doing it quite a lot lately. In fact it looks like you've been using HN primarily for this, which is a line at which we ban accounts. See these links for explanation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.co…

Ok bro, point taken. But you will probably need to flag all posts about Ukraine as they are biased and political by design.

That's not how it works. It's not the topic that's at fault—it's accounts that break the site guidelines.

It's possible to discuss the topic while remaining thoughtful, substantive, not descending into attack, and so on. Not that it's easy, but plenty of users are managing it, and their posts don't need to be flagged.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Post reply on HN