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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#31

Post by maxerickson »

estro0182 wrote: post #9

I would argue that this is a near equivalence of nuclear war with Ukraine. A well-/mis-placed Russian artillery shell could cause a loss of reactor integrity and meltdown, no? EDIT: according to child comments, a meltdown is unlikely/impossible, but spread of radioactive particles due to a direct strike is possible.

A few artillery shells probably won't breach the containment. Missile shielding is part of the plant design (I don't know what level of shielding; US plants are designed to withstand a strike by an airliner).

Not saying that the attack is thus acceptable, just saying that it will take a concerted effort to breach the containment.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#33

Post by megous »

doener wrote: post #15

"BREAKING: Ukraine's energy ministry claims firefighters have been fired at while trying to put out fire at Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant" https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/149954992461016678...

Well, I've been watching the video for a while before the fire started, and there was shooting going on towards the building that's on fire from the units stationed between the parking lots.

Then there was/is fire. Then presumably firefighters arrived, were not let through and departed away.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#34

Post by throwanem »

shadowgovt wrote: post #22
estro0182 wrote: post #9

I would argue that this is a near equivalence of nuclear war with Ukraine. A well-/mis-placed Russian artillery shell could cause a loss of reactor integrity and meltdown, no? EDIT: according to child comments, a meltdown is unlikely/impossible, but spread of radioactive particles due to a direct strike is possible.

Probably not. Reactors generally can't melt down the way Chernobyl did anymore. The most significant risk is a breach of the reactor chamber fragmenting the fuel rofs and spreading radioactive particles around, or a hit to the spent fuel stores doing the same. Neither are good, but they wouldn't be nearly as bad as Chernobyl or a nuclear weapon strike.

Nobody builds RBMK-style uncontained graphite piles any longer, but that's a long way from saying meltdowns are no longer possible.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#35

Post by mensetmanusman »

01100011 wrote: post #26

God damn, is the Russian army really this stupid? Is this an act of desperation, ignorance or spite?

Most likely ignorance, seems like they have soldiers who still think they are on a training mission.

Initiation of an actual radioactive disaster near your own border on purpose…

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#37

Post by yuliyp »

jtbayly wrote: post #21
Gustomaximus wrote: post #12

Live stream from plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYUT36YGOh8 Automated Radiation Monitoring system: https://www.npp.zp.ua/en/safety/arms

Thanks. So what’s the historical norm on those numbers?

Most recent wayback machine sample I could find https://web.archive.org/web/20220226013028/https://www.npp.z... shows comparable to right now

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#38

Post by estro0182 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #22
estro0182 wrote: post #9

I would argue that this is a near equivalence of nuclear war with Ukraine. A well-/mis-placed Russian artillery shell could cause a loss of reactor integrity and meltdown, no? EDIT: according to child comments, a meltdown is unlikely/impossible, but spread of radioactive particles due to a direct strike is possible.

Probably not. Reactors generally can't melt down the way Chernobyl did anymore. The most significant risk is a breach of the reactor chamber fragmenting the fuel rofs and spreading radioactive particles around, or a hit to the spent fuel stores doing the same. Neither are good, but they wouldn't be nearly as bad as Chernobyl or a nuclear weapon strike.

Ok this is good to know, thanks for clarifying. While not nearly as bad as the two scenarios listed, spreading radioactive particles near a population center of civilians could be grounds to consider this a nuclear war, intentional or not. Not on the same scale as a deliberate nuclear attack of course.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#39

Post by mdanger007 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #22
estro0182 wrote: post #9

I would argue that this is a near equivalence of nuclear war with Ukraine. A well-/mis-placed Russian artillery shell could cause a loss of reactor integrity and meltdown, no? EDIT: according to child comments, a meltdown is unlikely/impossible, but spread of radioactive particles due to a direct strike is possible.

Probably not. Reactors generally can't melt down the way Chernobyl did anymore. The most significant risk is a breach of the reactor chamber fragmenting the fuel rofs and spreading radioactive particles around, or a hit to the spent fuel stores doing the same. Neither are good, but they wouldn't be nearly as bad as Chernobyl or a nuclear weapon strike.

nuclear scientist @CherylRofer is worried about the ongoing fighting around the administrative building. some highly trained people keep that place from melting down and now they've got bullets whizzing by their head and fires breaking out in their offices.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#40

Post by csee »

jimmydorry wrote: post #27
ardit33 wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

Could you please provide a source for this claim? I searched Bloomberg (as you claimed that you saw it mentioned there), and this [1] appears to be the only coverage of it at the momement. There is no mention of radiation levels increasing in the area. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-03/russia-at...

A Ukrainian official told the AP this about 15 minutes ago. Not fully confirmed yet.
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