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Why enterprise software is bloated

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Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#31

Post by dspillett »

arethuza wrote: post #14
hef19898 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. People only miss out on the fact that, especially ERP systems, are to a huge extend a colection of process best parctices. By sticking as much as possible to the out of the box solution, not only and release changes or integrations become easier, but you also get a busoness process benchmark and consulting on top, automatically. Benefiting from all that does require so more depth of thought than most upper mana…

A lot of variation in business processes doesn't have any real justification it's often just "that's how we've always done it". Edit: There can be risks when an ERP supplier fundamentally fails to understand your business model - SAP managed to do this with a former employer of mine which led them to be shown the door.

> A lot of variation in business processes doesn't have any real justification it's often just "that's how we've always done it".

Far too often.

Sometimes we fight a bit to convince our clients to actually take advantage of what a modern system can do for them.

Sometimes we have to give in watch the horror unfold as they use our services to hackily re-implement something that is basically a copy of an old desktop app that was a copy of an old mainframe app that was just an automated version of a paper-based system…

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#32

Post by ihateolives »

In a lot of companies, feature development trumps optimizing, refactoring or removal of legacy code.

Dev: Hey Steve, I'm working on issue #4546, but it just occured to me that that if I could just refactor that one method in SuperFactory it'd make code much cleaner and easier to reuse. Just a quick fix!

Manager: No. Work on #4546.

Dev: Sure, #4546 will be done soon, but it'd be really easy fix, it just occurred to me yesterday that there's a better way to build things with SuperFactory.

Manager: No! We already closed that issue!

Dev: No problems. But I thought that now that I have some extra time until...

Manager: Look, Dave, it's working as intended, the solution was reviewed and accepted. I will not create another task. You'll take #7839 next!

[...]

Manager: Hey, Dave, I recall you had some ideas about SuperFactory. It's been acting up lately, they keep creating tickets.

Dev: Nope. None. All gone now.

Manager: But you had, right?

Dev: Yes, but I'd have to start digging in again and I don't have time for that.

Manager: Oh, ok, you're right.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#33

Post by crispyambulance »

hef19898 wrote: post #9
ziml77 wrote: post #4

Because every customer needs different features. No one wants to make their workflow follow what the software dictates, they want the software to support the workflow the business uses

True. People only miss out on the fact that, especially ERP systems, are to a huge extend a colection of process best parctices. By sticking as much as possible to the out of the box solution, not only and release changes or integrations become easier, but you also get a busoness process benchmark and consulting on top, automatically. Benefiting from all that does require so more depth of thought than most upper mana…

I mostly agree. However "out-of-box solutions" often ALSO means "one-size-fits-all".

There's flexibility in ERP's, for sure, but it's not necessarily accessible to the people that use it.

I once had to implement a "screen" to physically divert a list of devices with certain serial numbers. Basically: send a notification whenever one of these devices showed up at a loading dock.

The most logical way to do it, which I naively considered first, was to set-up something in one of the ERP modules which is specifically focused on "material movement". After some tedious email exchanges and a phone call it turned out that it was, in fact, "possible". The catch was that it would take WEEKS and involve an expensive Oracle consultant requisition.

I put an end to that and instead had a junior implement the solution in a downstream application (which we actually develop, own and control), in about an hour. It was worth it even though it meant the stuff left the loading dock and ingressed into the building, requiring some additional physical "moving-around" hassles.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#34

Post by listenallyall »

arethuza wrote: post #14
hef19898 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. People only miss out on the fact that, especially ERP systems, are to a huge extend a colection of process best parctices. By sticking as much as possible to the out of the box solution, not only and release changes or integrations become easier, but you also get a busoness process benchmark and consulting on top, automatically. Benefiting from all that does require so more depth of thought than most upper mana…

A lot of variation in business processes doesn't have any real justification it's often just "that's how we've always done it". Edit: There can be risks when an ERP supplier fundamentally fails to understand your business model - SAP managed to do this with a former employer of mine which led them to be shown the door.

I always find it amusing when people talk shit about SAP and brag about giving them the boot. SAP already got your money... big deal, you cut off a few years of support fees. SAP grows and grows despite seemingly everybody saying how terrible the product is. My hat is off to them for finding (and heavily compensating) some truly talented salespeople who can consistently resell their turd to CEOs.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#35

Post by dspillett »

pc86 wrote: post #13
VHRanger wrote: post #2

Because checking off features matter more than usability when a manager is the one buying it instead of the person using it Next question

It's easy to say this (and it's part of the problem) but it ignores why software built in-house is often just as bad, or worse. The article addresses this, pretty early on in fact.

> why software built in-house is often just as bad, or worse

In my experience this is largely due to PoC (or otherwise “temporary”) tools getting used long-term without refactoring, and growing further PoC features over time that compound the problem.

This also affects production services, if management let (or demand!) PoC code gets released before it is really ready.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#36

Post by arethuza »

listenallyall wrote: post #34
arethuza wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of variation in business processes doesn't have any real justification it's often just "that's how we've always done it". Edit: There can be risks when an ERP supplier fundamentally fails to understand your business model - SAP managed to do this with a former employer of mine which led them to be shown the door.

I always find it amusing when people talk shit about SAP and brag about giving them the boot. SAP already got your money... big deal, you cut off a few years of support fees. SAP grows and grows despite seemingly everybody saying how terrible the product is. My hat is off to them for finding (and heavily compensating) some truly talented salespeople who can consistently resell their turd to CEOs.

I should have mentioned that they got the boot during the sales process - so they hadn't won the work yet.

It wasn't a criticism of the SAP product - just that they the sales team constantly got a a basic thing incorrect in a rather dogmatic way.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#38

Post by ok123456 »

His "solutions" is to work in "pockets of the industry" that don't have "bloat". (Among one of them is use more cloud services. Which makes me wonder if he's seen some of the engineering disasters people are churning out. This makes me want to just summarily dismiss the whole piece.)

The real solution is to systematically address technical debt as part of your development process. Did that feature that someone swore up and down would be your money maker three years ago not pan out? Delete. Is that abstraction leaky and not that useful? Delete. Are there code paths that never get used and are more or less untested? Delete or assert they never happen.

Re: Why enterprise software is bloated

#39

Post by adambyrtek »

ihateolives wrote: post #32

In a lot of companies, feature development trumps optimizing, refactoring or removal of legacy code. Dev: Hey Steve, I'm working on issue #4546, but it just occured to me that that if I could just refactor that one method in SuperFactory it'd make code much cleaner and easier to reuse. Just a quick fix! Manager: No. Work on #4546. Dev: Sure, #4546 will be done soon, but it'd be really easy fix, it just occurred to me…

I know this is just an anecdote, but a good developer wouldn't ask the manager to approve every small refactoring or expect them to understand the importance of "one method in SuperFactory". They would have instead made a judgement call and taken the responsibility of doing the quick fix.
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