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No user accounts, by design

f-droid.org

31–40 of 147 posts

Re: No user accounts, by design

#31
post #23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution for that is easy: Don't share the new URL with someone that was a jerk in the past. (And don't make it easy to guess meeting URLs)

How do you share a URL without a user representation to share with? How do you prevent others from sharing URLs with bad actors? Or meeting passwords? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoombombing

You send the url to your friends however you like. Email, chat, QR code. You don't send it to people who aren't your friends.

Re: No user accounts, by design

#32
post #27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm familiar with the theory. But accounts just aren't a big barrier to determined bad actors. Note that the world's biggest content site, Wikipedia, allows anonymous edits and always has. And note also that some of big tech companies, despite having all the money in the world, still have problems with fake accounts. So at best, requiring user accounts is one possible anti-abuse step, but it's neither necessary nor s…

> Note that the world's biggest content site, Wikipedia, allows anonymous edits and always has. Not really. You can't edit Wikipedia from a VPN (even with a user account!), and I think they ban most datacenters. The edits aren't really anonymous if they publicly associate with a piece of PII that, for most people, directly maps to their name and home address.

Oh? My current IP is 2601:646:4300:758:f676:3f1b:8b5:42a. Please show me how to turn that into my name and home address. Thanks!

Re: No user accounts, by design

#33
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you share a URL without a user representation to share with? How do you prevent others from sharing URLs with bad actors? Or meeting passwords? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoombombing

You send the url to your friends however you like. Email, chat, QR code. You don't send it to people who aren't your friends.

> How do you prevent others from sharing URLs with bad actors?

Sure, but then the student who shares their interactive class URL (w/ or w/o password) on 4chan still isn't accounted for.

Re: No user accounts, by design

#34
The thing that F-droid are getting right here is "if we don't track you, you have privacy from us".

But privacy is not secrecy. If f-droid tracked my every waking move, and then just never bother to look at that data, I would still have privacy from them.

What they are doing here is a form of guaranteeing their future good behaviour. Which is nice, but there are other methods. For example I am happy to announce my plans to not rob a bank. But there are means in place to ensure I do not - At least not twice.

So while it is nice to find ways to avoid having user accounts at all, most hospitals will have to have other means to keep their users privacy.

Most of the time we are going to need to rely on regulation, where PII data (which lets face it is 98% of all data) will both legally and culturally have to be protected at levels hardly dreamed of today.

Re: No user accounts, by design

#35
post #32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that the world's biggest content site, Wikipedia, allows anonymous edits and always has. Not really. You can't edit Wikipedia from a VPN (even with a user account!), and I think they ban most datacenters. The edits aren't really anonymous if they publicly associate with a piece of PII that, for most people, directly maps to their name and home address.

Oh? My current IP is 2601:646:4300:758:f676:3f1b:8b5:42a. Please show me how to turn that into my name and home address. Thanks!

Comcast has a portal for law enforcement to request subscriber information at https://lea.comcast.com . That IPv6 address, plus the current date and time, uniquely identifies you by name and service address. Any edits you make to Wikipedia from that address are not anonymous.

Re: No user accounts, by design

#36

F-droid gets many things right (e.g. verifiable builds), but it's just not usable in practice. Installing applications is a rare event, updating them is frequent, and needs to disrupt the user as little as possible. Android used to not allow alternative app stores to update apps without user interaction, but now supports this through UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION, which doesn't seem to be supported by F-droid.…

I believe this is a result of fdroid wanting to support older android versions for longer than google does. They could probably make two versions to allow this though but that would require more maintenance

Re: No user accounts, by design

#37

F-droid gets many things right (e.g. verifiable builds), but it's just not usable in practice. Installing applications is a rare event, updating them is frequent, and needs to disrupt the user as little as possible. Android used to not allow alternative app stores to update apps without user interaction, but now supports this through UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION, which doesn't seem to be supported by F-droid.…

Issue tracking here: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/issues/2316

Re: No user accounts, by design

#38
post #17

I tried something like this once and it worked surprisingly well, even for a UGC site. Years back we were doing something that included users documenting TV shows. We had a big meeting where people put every feature they wanted on index cards. We laid the cards out a founder's dining room table. The host got their change jar and each person got a certain number of pennies to mark features they thought were vital for…

What's been professionally frustrating me for years as a developer is how much of the engineering and operational budget for a project is tied up into identifying and tracking users. The first time this happened to me we had some idiot who insisted that we needed to display exactly how many logged on users there were on every page load. There was no point in doing so, and we had proven that it was at least ten percent of the cost of each page load. In fact it was higher than that but 10% is what we could proved. My current project is about our customers, not the users, and probably 80% of the operating budget is about making the customer feel like they're running the show. Often with demonstrable and even clichéd consequences for the users.

Without customization or user tracking, many, many workflows shift to read-mostly. Many are idempotent. Some can be fully cached. Some can be edge-cached.

The dark secret of 'social' media that has been slowly coming out is that they aren't social. They aren't about 'Us', they're about me. Me, me, me. So of course the whole workflow is build around who I am and what I want. That's not just unhealthy, it's also really fucking expensive. And if it's really expensive we can't just eat the cost as a 'value add', we now have to monetize it. So things were already pretty dark and then compensation came into the picture and now it's positively dire.

Re: No user accounts, by design

#39

F-droid gets many things right (e.g. verifiable builds), but it's just not usable in practice. Installing applications is a rare event, updating them is frequent, and needs to disrupt the user as little as possible. Android used to not allow alternative app stores to update apps without user interaction, but now supports this through UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION, which doesn't seem to be supported by F-droid.…

Not really a counter point because you mention a lot of other issues with f-droid that sound valid (I haven't used it myself) - but as a tangent regarding auto updates, I disable them basically everywhere because I seem to have buggy experiences too often if I allow stuff to update all the time.

I then go through the list of updates in the Play Store once a week or so and install those that I think might improve app functioning/stability. I look over and install Windows updates once a way-too-long (need to work on this).

Feel like everyone is skimping on QA these days or something else fishy is going on. In the last handful of years there have been 2 or 3 Windows updates that either permanently erased data or caused some other insane issues. I didn't get them (tbf I understand that most people didn't), partially thanks to having auto updates disabled.

Re: No user accounts, by design

#40

F-droid gets many things right (e.g. verifiable builds), but it's just not usable in practice. Installing applications is a rare event, updating them is frequent, and needs to disrupt the user as little as possible. Android used to not allow alternative app stores to update apps without user interaction, but now supports this through UPDATE_PACKAGES_WITHOUT_USER_ACTION, which doesn't seem to be supported by F-droid.…

> ...but it's just not usable in practice.

> ...this makes using packages installed through F-Droid a nightmare.

I run 2x Androids with near 80%-90% of the packages installed from F-Droid repos (to include Bromite and Bitwarden custom repos); it has quirks and is not perfect - but far from "not usable" and "nightmare" as your hyperbole would suggest.

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