EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#31

Post by lentil_soup » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:41 PM UTC

Raed667 wrote: post #20

Is there anything in this text that would prevent a company from posting offers with very large ranges? "this position salary can be from €35k to 75k€ depending on multiple factors" Such ranges would render it pointless

I'm not sure. If you can afford to be picky such a large range might be a bit of a red flag.

Also, if I'm looking for something close to the top of the range the possibility that I may get a way lower offer might put me off. Specially if I'll need to fight the company to get the top of the range salary.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#32

Post by astaunton » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:43 PM UTC

Raed667 wrote: post #20

Is there anything in this text that would prevent a company from posting offers with very large ranges? "this position salary can be from €35k to 75k€ depending on multiple factors" Such ranges would render it pointless

I would think that it will be benchmarked and compared against the same role/roles in other Europen countries (taking in to account cost of living etc).

So as an example Junior Software Engineer / Developer in one European country may be 35-45k salary but could be 30k-40k elsewhere (where property prices / food prices etc are lower).

This would also may it easier for job applicants to know what the expected pay scale is before interviewing (in my experience recruiters often contact people with roles that would be below their salary expectation e.g. software developer with 10 years experience being sent a role with a salary scale equivalent to a recent graduate)

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#33

Post by DharmaPolice » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

mustyoshi wrote: post #16

pimterry wrote: post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

How does making salary public and not asking about applicants pay history work? If you tell them your title and employer, can't they just look up what you probably got paid?

You would only know what a new starter might be offered, not what someone actually received after a period of time. I don't think the problem is organisations basing salaries on what other employers are offering (that's just market testing) but choosing to pay an individual person more or less based on what they personally managed to negotiate elsewhere. If I'm buddies with my department head and I get an extra $10k because of that, why should other employers replicate that when I move companies?

(Note : I don't really agree with this as it's relying on salary secrecy but I think that's the logic.)

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#34

Post by simonh » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

boomskats wrote: post #24

0xedd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

despite pay gap shown time and time again to be fiction, government monkeys are still dancing to that out of key tune.

Any external references to back up your 'pay gap shown time[0] and time again[1] to be fiction' claim? FYI I had to read your comment a few times to try to pick out what you're trying to say without getting distracted by the gratuitous vitriol. It might make you feel better but it's not an effective means of actual communication. [0]: ? [1]: ?

It's not fiction, that's hyperbole, but there are factors other than gender by itself that accounts for a lot of the remaining disparity between men and women's pay. Taking a career break to have children, historical 'steering' of women away from STEM subjects in education, some apparent natural tendency for many women to avoid such subjects even when they have a free choice, a tendency for women to not challenge their compensation or push for raises compared to men, women's tendency to avoid overtime compared to men which can affect their advancement prospects. There are a lot of factors that come down to personal choice, and women often make different choices from men.

Nevertheless even controlling for all this there is a remaining gap of a few percent at least, which varies greatly depending on the industrial sector and also by region. Since this thread is about the EU, it's reverent to point out that the gap is particularly high in some EU countries.

https://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-a...

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#35

Post by new_here » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:45 PM UTC

Raed667 wrote: post #20

Is there anything in this text that would prevent a company from posting offers with very large ranges? "this position salary can be from €35k to 75k€ depending on multiple factors" Such ranges would render it pointless

I think this is going to be the natural side-effect. I remember seeing Monzo posting salary ranges of £40k - £100k for certain positions. So for the right person they'll make a plan but they can also lure in more candidates and low-ball them when making an offer at the end of the process.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#36

Post by dathinab » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

invalidusernam3 wrote: post #15

aborsy wrote: post #3

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

It's all relative to cost of living.

Yes,

though you also have to look into details.

Like as far as I can tell the "actual" cost of living in the US diverges quite a bit from the "surface level" cost you might find when googling ad-hoc.

As far as I can tell this is because (but not limited to) factors like the health system being prone to having high hidden costs, or also small things like you being required to have a care in many metro areas or thinks you are "socially expected" to strive for like owning a house or a more expensive car.

I'm pretty sure similar things apply for other countries, too.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#37

Post by M2Ys4U » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

JCM9 wrote: post #6

These laws don’t have the effect people think they will in tech given that “salary” is often a small part of someone’s overall compensation. A role might say it has a $150,000 “salary” but if someone has say $300,000 in RSUs on top of that then they’re really making $450,000 with a $150,000 “salary”. Eg in the US employers must publish the “salary” for certain visa applicants, but those numbers are often only a small…

When you take a look at the job market in totality, hardly anybody is paid in anything other than salary.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#38

Post by I_am_tiberius » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

Great then everyone knows the minimum salary I earn. I always wanted that.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#39

Post by dathinab » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

a_chris wrote: post #22

JCM9 wrote: post #6

These laws don’t have the effect people think they will in tech given that “salary” is often a small part of someone’s overall compensation. A role might say it has a $150,000 “salary” but if someone has say $300,000 in RSUs on top of that then they’re really making $450,000 with a $150,000 “salary”. Eg in the US employers must publish the “salary” for certain visa applicants, but those numbers are often only a small…

I'm sorry by Europe is not USA. We have no RSU and little to zera extra compensations. Salary is just salary. Please don't undervaluate this law proposal if you don't know what you are talking about

While lot of forms "paying by with stock" or "bonus based on partial profit margin" and similar a not quite legal in many parts of the EU it's not that bonus payments and similar don't exist they are just less common and more constraint.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#40

Post by bloqs » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

boomskats wrote: post #24

0xedd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

despite pay gap shown time and time again to be fiction, government monkeys are still dancing to that out of key tune.

Any external references to back up your 'pay gap shown time[0] and time again[1] to be fiction' claim? FYI I had to read your comment a few times to try to pick out what you're trying to say without getting distracted by the gratuitous vitriol. It might make you feel better but it's not an effective means of actual communication. [0]: ? [1]: ?

The pay gap exists. The cause of the pay gap is not due to oppression, but due to tempermental difference between different types of people, and the impact that has on salary negotiation. (Including, male-female temperamental differences).

This is the point of contention.