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Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

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Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#31

Post by tanseydavid »

colburnmh wrote: post #19

Freedom also means the ability to live without having to suffer overbearing impacts from others. The blockade of Ottawa and the US/Canada border crossings are causing enormous economic impacts on both countries while in the midst of a global pandemic, rising inflation due to supply chain issues. Estimates of the financial impact of this "protest" are not definitive, but are likely in the billions of dollars and are a…

>> "But this protest is impacting other people's ability to transact."

It is really astonishing that you try to claim there is equivalence between having one's accounts frozen vs being impacted by the effects of a protest.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#32

Post by colburnmh »

gruez wrote: post #17
karmakaze wrote: post #16

anything that takes that long to make an argument seems to not have a specific point other than costing money and some hints at decentrLizied freedoms?

>anything that takes that long to make an argument seems to not have a specific point Is this what twitter has turned discourse into? If you haven't made your within one or two tweets your whole work is dismissed as "not have a specific point". Anyways the "point" of this article is that the government is punishing their enemies by locking them out of the financial system. This is bad because of how much we rely on t…

The protesters are locking the government and many US and Canadian systems out of the ability to travel between the countries or engage in many types of free commerce. They haven't confiscated the money, they have simply frozen the accounts, effectively saying "block our commerce, we block your access to money to support your actions."

I don't find that to be an unreasonable reaction given the scope of the daily business and economic disruption being caused. If the Canadian government actually confiscated the money or kept the accounts frozen after the situation resolves, that would be government overreach.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#33

Post by lazyant »

evilpotatoes wrote: post #26
ulrashida wrote: post #25

Given the author's command /41 to "always invert, invert, invert" does that, absent a financial emergency power, mean we should normalize allowing foreign money to bankroll people with semis to blockade cities under the flag of protest? That feels like something most citizens of a country would be against. Without the massive inflows of cash this protest would have been just as demonstrative, but not as crippling or…

The majority of donations are from Canadians.

citation? I'm reading:

- Leaked data of the donations on GiveSendGo showed Canadians raised $4.31 million for the Freedom Convoy while Americans donated $3.62 million.

- Americans, however, accounted 56 per cent of the donor base while Canadians made up only 29 per cent of all donors

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#34

Post by salawat »

malermeister wrote: post #4
salawat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change freedom of speech to "freedom to realistically effect change", and you'll ultimately end up at the point everyone is dancing around, but no one is willing to say out loud. Freedom of Speech everyone is all about. Freedom to be Heard is what everyone is in a tizzy about. You can't buy a printing press without... Money. You can't buy a computer without... Money You can't get an internet connection without... Mon…

What you're suggesting comes down to rich people having disproportionally more say. Taking money out of the equation democratizes speech and makes sure everyone has a say, not just the Peter Thiels that can buy printing presses.

Info propagation isn't free. Even at the atomic unit, you and someone to listen to you, requires the organization of participants to scale beyond triviality. Realistically, within the societal framework we operate in, there isn't really feasible decoupling of funds from access to anplification. You're not safe relying on government subsidy, because, well, square one.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#35

Post by ulrashida »

evilpotatoes wrote: post #26
ulrashida wrote: post #25

Given the author's command /41 to "always invert, invert, invert" does that, absent a financial emergency power, mean we should normalize allowing foreign money to bankroll people with semis to blockade cities under the flag of protest? That feels like something most citizens of a country would be against. Without the massive inflows of cash this protest would have been just as demonstrative, but not as crippling or…

The majority of donations are from Canadians.

I'm not sure if a 55:45 split makes this okay. If it were under five percent I would agree that it's negligible.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#36

Post by engineer_22 »

Teever wrote: post #24
engineer_22 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"make people listen" Like, coercion? As in, physically restrain someone so they must engage with my ideas?

No, we're talking about a situation in Ottawa where people are blaring their truck horns for hours at a time with a complete lack of regard for how the citizens of that city feel about it.

Oh, I thought we were talking about freedom of speech.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#37

Post by refurb »

Not sure what’s up with British Commonwealth countries but there is a definite split when it comes to individual rights.

Australia is creating a massive surveillance state, NZ won’t allow their own citizens into the country (2 years now!) and Canada pulls out a sledgehammer to deal with protestors on the front steps of its legislature.

Maybe Canada can adopt some of Singapore’s rules? Permits for any protest (even a one person protest), a “free speech square” where you can exercise your rights - all in the name of “stability and maintenance of harmony”.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#38

Post by xupybd »

colburnmh wrote: post #32
gruez wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>anything that takes that long to make an argument seems to not have a specific point Is this what twitter has turned discourse into? If you haven't made your within one or two tweets your whole work is dismissed as "not have a specific point". Anyways the "point" of this article is that the government is punishing their enemies by locking them out of the financial system. This is bad because of how much we rely on t…

The protesters are locking the government and many US and Canadian systems out of the ability to travel between the countries or engage in many types of free commerce. They haven't confiscated the money, they have simply frozen the accounts, effectively saying "block our commerce, we block your access to money to support your actions." I don't find that to be an unreasonable reaction given the scope of the daily busi…

It's the lack of due process. If a court were to find them guilty of this then fine.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#39

Post by gruez »

colburnmh wrote: post #32
gruez wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>anything that takes that long to make an argument seems to not have a specific point Is this what twitter has turned discourse into? If you haven't made your within one or two tweets your whole work is dismissed as "not have a specific point". Anyways the "point" of this article is that the government is punishing their enemies by locking them out of the financial system. This is bad because of how much we rely on t…

The protesters are locking the government and many US and Canadian systems out of the ability to travel between the countries or engage in many types of free commerce. They haven't confiscated the money, they have simply frozen the accounts, effectively saying "block our commerce, we block your access to money to support your actions." I don't find that to be an unreasonable reaction given the scope of the daily busi…

>The protesters are locking the government and many US and Canadian systems out of the ability to travel between the countries or engage in many types of free commerce.

If you think those actions are illegal, the correct course of action is to prosecute them under the normal judicial process, not to shut them out of society "nosedive" style. Murderers and rapists do worse but even then we give them due process.

>They haven't confiscated the money, they have simply frozen the accounts, effectively saying "block our commerce, we block your access to money to support your actions."

As was stated in the OP and my previous comment, the argument here isn't that "this protest is legal and should be allowed", it's "if the protest is illegal, the government should go through the normal legal channels (ie. courts) to shut it down, rather than having the executive branch unilaterally dish out punishments.

Re: Great thread on what’s problematic with Canada’s anti-protest actions

#40

Post by klyrs »

gruez wrote: post #17
karmakaze wrote: post #16

anything that takes that long to make an argument seems to not have a specific point other than costing money and some hints at decentrLizied freedoms?

>anything that takes that long to make an argument seems to not have a specific point Is this what twitter has turned discourse into? If you haven't made your within one or two tweets your whole work is dismissed as "not have a specific point". Anyways the "point" of this article is that the government is punishing their enemies by locking them out of the financial system. This is bad because of how much we rely on t…

> You might be in favor of this action because the targets happen to be your enemies, but this could easily be flipped next time around.

Well, that's the irony right there. Conservatives are all about this authoritarian garbage, have been for decades or more. Now that it's been flipped around on them, it's all hue and cry. If the cops had treated this like any other protest, they'd have violently shut it down 3 weeks ago. The federal government declared it a national emergency because the cops decided not to maintain order. Sure, this is bad. But if it's somehow news to you, you just haven't been paying attention because you didn't like what the protesters had to say. Let's change the law already. But let's make sure the cops are respectful of everybody's freedom to assemble while we're at it.

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