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UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

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Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#31

Post by ErrantX »

Maro wrote: post #19

I'm not sure why this was posted here. Based on the response, you're knocking on the wrong door? However, the role of this Department is limited to setting the policy framework of the National Curriculum of what is taught in terms of content, attainment targets and how performance is assessed and reported. Therefore, we do not endorse, fund or promote specific resources or activities for use in schools.

They seem to have misread his letter as proposing that the DOE support/fund/promote Raspberry Pi - I think.

The department does set the curriculum; which means they legislate on what subjects should be taught, what topics within that subject should be taught etc.

John's argument is that programming should be added to the earlier curriculum - they seem to have missed that point, but it is not something that a local authority could implement even if contacted.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#32

Post by samarudge »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #26
samarudge wrote: post #10

While I'm aware this may get downvoted to the depths, I feel I have to say it. Why should kids be taught programming instead of reading, writing, language and maths? If the curriculum was changed to include programming, it would almost certainly reduce the funding and time put into other, more important subjects. While a good understanding of computers will help with almost any job in the future, unless you're going…

Honestly, school time is not that scarce. An adult can learn to read and write in a couple of days of intensive practice. Maths can take longer, but have the same issues as programming - how many cruise directors use more than arithmetic? Learning programming can be easily misconstrued. Lets call it logic, algorithms and applied maths. Now is it a good idea? Sure, and its something a hypothetical cruise director coul…

>school time is not that scarce

For students, no, for teachers, yes. And for the budgets? Picture yourself as a financer at a school, you have to fund more teachers, introduce a new subject and overall you're getting less money per student.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#33

Post by majmun »

> " Then they suggest that I might like to contact every single local authority and school in the country. "

I suggest that you stop complaining and do just that, with programming this work can be made easy. and fun.

First start with LAs than go lower level to schools. This is one way you can prove that programming is useful for people to know. And you should report back to PCU your results. And thanks them for advice.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#34

Post by ErrantX »

wccrawford wrote: post #24

"Therefore, we do not endorse, fund or promote specific resources or activities for use in schools." Holy crap, nobody else agrees with this? This is a government entity refusing to grasp more control than it should have! They are actively saying that they trust their school system to improve itself organically, and they aren't not going to slow it down by mandating the tools used. Had he left it at 'We need to promo…

True; and I agree this is theoretically a nice thing.

However the net result of this is that, to take an example, school IT services range from the sublime to the dire. Almost all of them are hugely expensive contracts to major firms (say, BT) and tend to consist of poorly paid tech staff (often shared amongst a school district), old out-dated technology and overly-complex infrastructure.

At my mum's school, a primary, the teachers had 3 "new" laptops each one year, because they could not get the infrastructure right...

This is mirrored across the whole system; no one has a proper budget or equipment recommendations from the DOE. And as a result you get a hit-and-miss situation, with some schools well equipped and others a mess.

More often than not teachers will spend out of their own pocket just to be able to adequately teach a subject.

Mandating every aspect of education would be bad, I agree. But affirmative action to end the waste, provide support for equipment purchase etc. would be very welcome!

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#35

Post by SamColes »

anamax wrote: post #30
jgrahamc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My view is that the average Londoner would benefit more from having been taught the basics of programming at a young age than where to find the font choices in Word.

> My view is that the average Londoner would benefit more from having been taught the basics of programming at a young age than where to find the font choices in Word. Yes, but what are the odds that a school that teaches where to find the font choices in Word as part of an English class wouldn't find something similarly bad to teach as "programming basics"? Small tweaks don't make big changes. Instead, they just giv…

> a school that teaches where to find the font choices in Word as part of an English class

That's taught in an IT lesson, not English!

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#36

Post by DanielStraight »

So try again.

I'm not trying to be an ass.

Alan Turing didn't get his apology because of one email, and your country's schools aren't going to get programming classes because of one email either. If it's important, fight for it. Focusing on the setbacks is just going to bring you down.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#37

Post by Maro »

jcromartie wrote: post #25
Maro wrote: post #19

I'm not sure why this was posted here. Based on the response, you're knocking on the wrong door? However, the role of this Department is limited to setting the policy framework of the National Curriculum of what is taught in terms of content, attainment targets and how performance is assessed and reported. Therefore, we do not endorse, fund or promote specific resources or activities for use in schools.

Because teaching programming is a broad policy decision. It's exactly the sort of thing the particular department would be in charge of. If JGC had merely been suggesting a certain programming language or teaching software, then the response would have been appropriate. As it is, it sounds like they didn't understand what JGC wrote. "Be it with Raspberry Pi computers in schools, or with some other hardware, we need t…

You are right, his email was broader and not just specific to Raspberry Pi.

Although I'm still not sure what the OP expected and why this was posted here.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#38

Post by jgrahamc »

DanielStraight wrote: post #36

So try again. I'm not trying to be an ass. Alan Turing didn't get his apology because of one email, and your country's schools aren't going to get programming classes because of one email either. If it's important, fight for it. Focusing on the setbacks is just going to bring you down.

Don't worry. I'm not very good at giving up.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#39

Post by chegra »

From reading John's letter, I was thinking bet you these guys are going to interpret it as him seeking some sort of endorsement.

I don't think he should have mentioned Raspberry Pi. It takes the letter into areas that you wouldn't want to discuss.

The letter lacked few concrete examples of what should be done to bring UK back on top of the computing world. Do we bring back the TV program? What exactly do we teach? What language do we teach? What else can be done? Could you provide examples of other country improving their computer literacy successfully. Being too vague means the person who is reading the article will have to think for themselves. Ideally, you would want them to do as little work as possible.

I think the letter was too long. For the first couple paragraphs, I was thinking would he hurry up and get to it; I need to get back to programming. I think the people in the government office reaction would be worst.

You fail to state your qualifications. In an ideal world, an appeal to authority should not work, but the care in which your material is being handled is some function of the person who writes it.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#40

Post by DanielStraight »

jgrahamc wrote: post #38
DanielStraight wrote: post #36

So try again. I'm not trying to be an ass. Alan Turing didn't get his apology because of one email, and your country's schools aren't going to get programming classes because of one email either. If it's important, fight for it. Focusing on the setbacks is just going to bring you down.

Don't worry. I'm not very good at giving up.

Don't worry either, I didn't expect you to. Really, I was trying to be encouraging. Just didn't know how to make it come out that way.

Best of luck in yet another "ridiculous" quest.

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