Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What are your company's anti-values?

willsewell.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 274 posts

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#31

Post by sakarisson »

krageon wrote: post #14
sakarisson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every C-level employee is an asshole and probably a sociopath That's a big generalization without any argument to back it up.

What is there to give arguments for? Either you've worked in a few companies and you have friends that have also done so (in which case it'd seem obvious), or you're part of a class that doesn't work (or you are a C-level employee yourself). In the latter cases, nothing I say will convince you. In the former case, we have enough shared environmental background that you understand what I'm saying already. Given those…

Your point states that all C-level employees are sociopaths. Logically, if I can provide you with a single example of a non-sociopath C-level employee, your point would be invalid. Of course I don't believe that you are literally saying that every single C-level employee in the entire world is a sociopath, but merely that the majority or a significant portion are.

> My point would not land with more people regardless of whether or not I wrote that paragraph.

It would, if you could provide me with some data that supports your generalization. If it was true, surely there would be some research backing it up.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#32

Post by afarrell »

dusted wrote: post #11
david_allison wrote: post #7

This mirrors Netflix's old culture slide deck[0] > adequate performance gets a generous severance package > We’re a team, not a family; We’re like a pro sports team, not a kid’s recreational team [0] https://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664/

I'm finding that Netflix slide incredibly toxic, I'd never want to work for Netflix after reading that, no matter how skilled I was (they wouldn't want me anyway so nobody lost anything).

This is a signal that they have phrased their values well. A good values statement should polarize. It should disgust people whose ability to work effectively would be poisoned by the culture that leadership strives to maintain.

A recruiting process which discriminates against people who do not share their values will create a more secure sense of belonging among people who do -- even among underprivileged groups who would otherwise worry they do not really fit in.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#33

Post by mytailorisrich »

I don't see any clear meaning to the term "anti-value" in this article.

It seems to imply that a "value" means "more". It does not. "Frugality" is a value of that is a behaviour deemed important to follow, it's not an "anti-value" (whatever that might mean).

Similarly, "move fast, break things" means you value action and risk-taking.

I was expecting "anti-value" to mean a behaviour deemed negative and to be avoided.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#34

Post by sakarisson »

hutzlibu wrote: post #26
dusted wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm finding that Netflix slide incredibly toxic, I'd never want to work for Netflix after reading that, no matter how skilled I was (they wouldn't want me anyway so nobody lost anything).

May I ask, what you find toxic about them? I thought them to be refreshing honest and clear (but have not yet read all slides). I mean, it is also not attractive for me, because I would not put what is good for Netflix, over what is good for me - but otherwise I do not think a professional, internal competing sports team as a goal, is necessarily toxic.

I do agree that the honesty is refreshing.

That said, I personally feel like the mentality of "We will fire you if you aren't doing an _exceptional_ job" reads as a serious red flag. The implication here is that you should expect to work overtime and prioritize your job over all else. Even then, we might still fire you.

Of course I'd rather have a company being open and upfront about their unsustainable expectations, but I'd still prefer a company that values work/live balance of their employees. Would I say that Netflix's approach is toxic? Honestly, yes. But I do understand that this is just my own opinion.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#35

Post by technion »

papito wrote: post #29
dusted wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm finding that Netflix slide incredibly toxic, I'd never want to work for Netflix after reading that, no matter how skilled I was (they wouldn't want me anyway so nobody lost anything).

I think claiming that "we are a family" is actually the toxic one. It's incredibly dishonest to claim that. No one gets fired from a family because the family is "right-sizing".

Even before I had a job, reading "we are like family" in advertisements just left me thinking of "well you walk out on a family at 5pm just because the event ended then".

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#36

Post by afarrell »

sakarisson wrote: post #9
krageon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems only assholes and sociopaths are transparent in this regard Every C-level employee is an asshole and probably a sociopath, if this was true every company would be transparent. As that isn't the case, we know that it does not necessarily have anything to do with being an asshole or a sociopath.

> Every C-level employee is an asshole and probably a sociopath That's a big generalization without any argument to back it up.

Unwillingness to be seen as an asshole by anyone makes it impossible to maintain boundaries unless you interact with solely with emotionally stable people.

Unwillingness to accidentally act like an asshole makes it impossible to act swiftly and decisively unless you trust yourself to be infallible in your judgement.

This is not the same as habitually acting like an asshole.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#37

Post by tux3 »

sakarisson wrote: post #34
hutzlibu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask, what you find toxic about them? I thought them to be refreshing honest and clear (but have not yet read all slides). I mean, it is also not attractive for me, because I would not put what is good for Netflix, over what is good for me - but otherwise I do not think a professional, internal competing sports team as a goal, is necessarily toxic.

I do agree that the honesty is refreshing. That said, I personally feel like the mentality of "We will fire you if you aren't doing an _exceptional_ job" reads as a serious red flag. The implication here is that you should expect to work overtime and prioritize your job over all else. Even then, we might still fire you. Of course I'd rather have a company being open and upfront about their unsustainable expectations,…

>The implication here is that you should expect to work overtime and prioritize your job over all else.

I don't think that's right. The slide says:

"""

Hard Work — Not Relevant

We don't measure people by how many hours they work or how much they are in the office

[...]

Sustained B-level performance despite effort generates severance

Sustained A-level performance despite minimal effort is rewarded

"""

The message seems to be that you don't have to work hard. They seem to say they want lazy employees that have a good work life balance, because they finish work early.

Whether that's toxic or not, that's another question. But I don't think they value overtime at all.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#39

Post by blitzar »

ignoramous wrote: post #20
adflux wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is totally fine and 100% the intent of that slide. You and Netflix don't match in terms of expectations. Id give kudos to netflix for being up front about it.

I fear "We're not a family" at this point is an oft copied mantra (I recall seeing this in GitLab's S1), same as Amazon's "missionaries over mercenaries" that's now prevalent (Coinbase, the most recent example), as well.

I fear "We're a family" at this point is an oft copied mantra

Of course I am assuming those that use said mantra are refering to the touchy feely version of family and we are not going down the 'what does family mean anyway' rabbit hole, where rivalry even Fratricide and Parricide, they even have a word for killing a family member.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#40

Post by sokoloff »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #33

I don't see any clear meaning to the term "anti-value" in this article. It seems to imply that a "value" means "more". It does not. "Frugality" is a value of that is a behaviour deemed important to follow, it's not an "anti-value" (whatever that might mean). Similarly, "move fast, break things" means you value action and risk-taking. I was expecting "anti-value" to mean a behaviour deemed negative and to be avoided.

Wasteful/free spending is the negative behavior to be avoided if you value frugality.

Overly cautious, ponderous delivery is the negative behavior to be avoided if you value “move fast, break things”.

Post reply on HN