Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act • Hacker News Board

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#31

Post by busymom0 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

ameminator wrote: post #12

Shameful that a peaceful protest is met with this response. How can a person protest meaningfully if any peaceful protest can be called illegal? I do understand that the truckers were disturbing the peace of ordinary people - I think this should be discouraged. However there must be a way to peacefully assemble without the government's approval. I don't see how we can have meaningful civil discourse if you need permi…

I along with my friends (who are vaxxed but only did so because their work coerced them) have been at the protest in Ottawa for 3 weekends. It's always been peaceful, friendly and almost like Canada day celebrations.

It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence.

I am brown and my buddy is black and neither of us met with anything other than friendly hugs and fist bumps. Then we get home and see an entirely different reporting on media and by government.

Here's an article written by a government employee who lives right above the protests:

https://maybury.ca/the-reformed-physicist/2022/02/03/a-night...

EDIT: Reply to comment below, I was personally there because of the air-travel mandate by the Feds and restaurant/gym mandates by my province. Triple vaxxed Trudeau can fly even while he caught COVID. Triple vaxxed Mayor Jim Watson can go to restaurants and gyms despite being COVID+. But I am not allowed to fly or go to restaurants and gyms even if I can show a negative COVID test.

I also talked to nurses there who worked for 2 years taking care of COVID patients, caught COVID along with their entire family, got natural immunity which is superior, and then got fired for not taking the shots. Yet Ontario and Quebec is letting COVID+ nurses to work if they are vaxxed.

Also women are a lot more against the mandates than men based on my impression which seems to match the surveys.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#32

Post by karpierz » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

Pierre Trudeau did far worse with the War Measures Act, which gave the government sweeping powers of arrest and detention without trial. Whether this will be a bad look on the government's part (from the public's perspective) depends on whether they can resolve this without incident. Unclear if the protestors will be able to dig in further if they're arrested for the various city laws they've broken.

I suspect that if Trudeau enforces Ottawa laws (which the police haven't), then stands down, this won't hurt public perception.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#33

Post by nirav72 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

This is definately going to back fire on him and his administration. There weren't any major incidence of violence or rioting. They got the bridge cleared. He should've left it at that and let it fizzle out.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#34

Post by dbtc » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

ameminator wrote: post #12

Shameful that a peaceful protest is met with this response. How can a person protest meaningfully if any peaceful protest can be called illegal? I do understand that the truckers were disturbing the peace of ordinary people - I think this should be discouraged. However there must be a way to peacefully assemble without the government's approval. I don't see how we can have meaningful civil discourse if you need permi…

Is it because of the $ cost of shutting the border down?

(I am not even thinking of whether it's justified, good or bad, just reasoning about motivations)

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#35

Post by tedajax » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:12 PM UTC

ameminator wrote: post #12

Shameful that a peaceful protest is met with this response. How can a person protest meaningfully if any peaceful protest can be called illegal? I do understand that the truckers were disturbing the peace of ordinary people - I think this should be discouraged. However there must be a way to peacefully assemble without the government's approval. I don't see how we can have meaningful civil discourse if you need permi…

No post body was provided.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#36

Post by MattGaiser » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:12 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

> Two-thirds of Canadians support military force to end Ottawa protests: poll

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadia...

The current approach seems to be a lot more mild than what the public would accept.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#37

Post by dblohm7 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:12 PM UTC

barbazoo wrote: post #15

vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

What should be done differently? In Alberta restrictions have been lifted but the occupation of the border still hasn't ended.

Not only that, but a cache of weapons and ammunition was seized from a trailer at that blockade.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#38

Post by vorpalhex » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:12 PM UTC

TeeMassive wrote: post #7

The people who thinks this will degenerate to violence will be disappointed. The truckers are normal people with mouths to feed and a retirement plan to save, not a militia made of radicals, as we saw at the bridge. What will happen however is that the problem just going to be moved elsewhere. Trucks might begin to slow down, citizens might continue to assemble, in Ottawa or elsewhere. How protesters are going to fin…

I recommend reading up on Shay's rebellion from US history: https://www.history.com/topics/early-us/shays-rebellion

The truckers assert their livelihoods are already heavily impacted. This crowd appears to be much larger than simply anti-vaxxers.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#39

Post by tyleo » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:12 PM UTC

I’m not in Ottowa and I feel like I’m not sure what to believe here.

On one hand, if the protests really were peaceful, I do not believe the government should shut them down.

On the other hand, I’ve heard the protests have caused millions in trade to be shut down which I would not consider a peaceful act. If some non-citizen entity shut down millions in trade, I don’t think it would be viewed as peaceful.

Should the right to peaceful protest include the right to halt trade at this scale? Are the reports of halted trade overblown?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#40

Post by zozbot234 » Mon, Feb 14, 2022, 11:12 PM UTC

toolz wrote: post #11

karpierz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act. Which specific regulatory laws would you expect them to be handled under?

Protesting is only a crime in authoritarian states. Canadians have the right to assembly and expression explicitly stated in the charter of rights.

There's no such thing as a "right" to use trucks to set up an illegal blockade. The trucker convoys are not protesting to fairly and legitimately raise awareness about their grievances; they're trying to get the upper hand by illegal means because much of public opinion clearly opposes their stance already. It's a simple matter, really. A response is quite appropriate.