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Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

thelancet.com

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Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#31

Post by berenza »

mlyle wrote: post #30
berenza wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you could do it for any covid-related public health measure or mandate, depending on the places you compared. denmark and sweden and norway and the UK are all ending, or have ended, all restrictions this quarter. i recall other countries (and states in the US) have done similar at different times in the past 2 years, but i'm not feeling like googling them right now.

That doesn't seem to be a reasonable kind of logic-- "some places are choosing to end mask mandates, therefore vaccines don't work."

who are you quoting?

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#32

Post by sofixa »

berenza wrote: post #28
sofixa wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patients with heavy Covid cases ( like the ones that needed ventilators to breathe) took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems, and then some ( temporary and military hospitals were deployed to help with that). It's not even remotely comparable.

i recall looking over the occupancy numbers for the temporary hospitals and hospital ships deployed as a response to the 2020 outbreaks in the UK and US, and they were mostly empty. sadly i cannot find that info now so i guess i'll just have to shrug about it. and i assume "took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems" is an exaggeration. i would still have to assert the health care costs to society of…

Look up the numbers for the French healthcare system, during the two lockdowns we had, hospitals were over capacity.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#33

Post by tzs »

xupybd wrote: post #21
berenza wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not vaccinated and will not be getting the jab, and i think vaccine mandates are a laughably bad idea, but you could easily just say less severe disease = less pressure on public health systems and "justify" it that way.

Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.

Being overweight or smoking increases the probability that you will need healthcare, but the probability density function (PDF) for that is flat and wide.

When obesity or smoking goes up the increased health care needs are spread out over decades because of the flat wide PDF. There is plenty of time for the healthcare system to expand to handle this before it can become overloaded.

COVID's healthcare needs PDF is tall and thin.

Because of the tall and thin PDF, COVID's strain on the healthcare system is short term.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#34

Post by mlyle »

berenza wrote: post #31
mlyle wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem to be a reasonable kind of logic-- "some places are choosing to end mask mandates, therefore vaccines don't work."

who are you quoting?

Please explain how your logic differs from that in the quote.

You may be reaching for something like "I have no confidence in public health mandates of any kind, based on our experience so far... therefore I'm inclined to not believe vaccine mandates will be effective."

But you seem to be leaping to say that vaccine mandates are not effective in preventing transmission ... because some regions are discontinuing requiring masks... This is very confused.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#35

Post by belltaco »

xupybd wrote: post #21
berenza wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not vaccinated and will not be getting the jab, and i think vaccine mandates are a laughably bad idea, but you could easily just say less severe disease = less pressure on public health systems and "justify" it that way.

Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.

>Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers

If there was a safe, easy to take and effective vaccine against obesity and smoking, but they refused to take it, maybe.

Plus neither obesity nor smoking infect other people.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#36

Post by berenza »

mlyle wrote: post #34
berenza wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who are you quoting?

Please explain how your logic differs from that in the quote. You may be reaching for something like "I have no confidence in public health mandates of any kind, based on our experience so far... therefore I'm inclined to not believe vaccine mandates will be effective." But you seem to be leaping to say that vaccine mandates are not effective in preventing transmission ... because some regions are discontinuing requi…

I do acknowledge the benefits of public health mandates in certain dire situations, i was simply trying to say comparing data between different places with different degrees of restriction can be helpful determining how beneficial those restrictions are. You can do this with vaccines as well if you wish, comparing countries performance and vaccination rates against each other.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#37

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #5
xupybd wrote: post #3

If this article is correct I hope that it will get incorporated into public policy swiftly.

Ego and the belief it could be used against them in campaigns this year will keep most politicians from allowing a change in public health policy due to the results in the paper. "We need more studies" likely will be how they proceed though there's a chance they'll simply try to discredit the authors and discourage anyone else from finding similar results.

They will get destroyed in the election with that approach. Instead, I think they're looking for a way to declare victory and stop the masks and quarantines. In fact, I think I see signs of them pivoting to that already.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#38

Post by xupybd »

belltaco wrote: post #35
xupybd wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.

>Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers If there was a safe, easy to take and effective vaccine against obesity and smoking, but they refused to take it, maybe. Plus neither obesity nor smoking infect other people.

You just eat less and stop smoking. No vaccine required.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#39

Post by xupybd »

anoncovid2022 wrote: post #20
berenza wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not vaccinated and will not be getting the jab, and i think vaccine mandates are a laughably bad idea, but you could easily just say less severe disease = less pressure on public health systems and "justify" it that way.

This was my understanding of why it's the way it is in NZ. NZ's hospital system was pretty full before covid, and from my understanding, wouldn't take much to get overwhelmed with covid cases. On the flip side, there are so few unvaccinated now, that I don't know how big of an effect the measures have with regards to unvaccinated restrictions. Having said that, personally I've not had any issues with the current rest…

I guess my point is why does a stretch on the health system warrant removal of personal freedoms. We don't do it for other conditions.

Re: Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals

#40

Post by xupybd »

mlyle wrote: post #26
berenza wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the "one guy" you are referring to seems to be reputable and experienced enough to be speaking through the lancet. https://www.rmian.org/dr-carlos-francoparedes

Sure. But it's not a peer-reviewed Lancet paper. It's just one (well-qualified) person's opinion who disagrees with the current prevailing view held by other well-qualified people.

Is there a current prevailing expert opinion?
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