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Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

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Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#31

Post by opan »

skyfaller wrote: post #3

Ever since Google Talk stopped supporting Jabber, I quickly ran out of anyone to talk with. I talk with friends on Signal, I talk with FOSS projects on IRC or Matrix, and I occasionally set up ad-hoc video conferences using Jitsi Meet, but I have zero Jabber contacts left. If you use Jabber today, who are you talking to and on what server(s)?

I got into XMPP in just the last few years, after already using Matrix (and still using IRC also).

XMPP for me is mostly internet friends. It's quite popular on the fediverse (they also happen to commonly dislike Matrix, although many are on both like me). Lots of people who are into technology and anime, basically.

I've noticed most free software projects don't have an XMPP room unless they are literally XMPP projects like Gajim and Dino. Pine64 (as well as many other places) will have a bridge between IRC and Matrix, but I've only seen one or two IRC channels that also bridge XMPP that I can remember. Many people aren't even really aware of it. I don't know the actual stats, but it often feels like XMPP is actually less popular than IRC these days.

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#32

Post by opan »

solarkraft wrote: post #26

I love Dino! I want to tell all my friends to install it on their ... oh. Oh no. They use macOS and Windows. I don't mean to be a downer, but if you want to reach a lot of people with your amazing software (not saying that you have to, but it seems like one of the intentions of the project), it's a good idea to get them where they already are. Side note 1: Vala/GTK could be an amazing app development platform if the…

There are working Windows builds (in another repo, kinda beta still I think), not sure about macOS support. Probably just needs someone interested in working on it.

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#34

Post by larma »

solarkraft wrote: post #26

I love Dino! I want to tell all my friends to install it on their ... oh. Oh no. They use macOS and Windows. I don't mean to be a downer, but if you want to reach a lot of people with your amazing software (not saying that you have to, but it seems like one of the intentions of the project), it's a good idea to get them where they already are. Side note 1: Vala/GTK could be an amazing app development platform if the…

While Dino and all of its dependencies can be compiled and run on Windows and macOS, this process is tedious and GTK isn't really well-tested on anything but Linux, resulting in worse UX when not going the extra mile of doing targeted modifications for these platforms. This hopefully improves with the migration to GTK4.

The XMPP Standards Foundation publishes a document once a year stating a set that decent XMPP clients and servers should implement. The current one, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0459.html even has a specific section on calling (it doesn't cover group calls yet).

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#35

Post by nicoco »

puggsy wrote: post #4

Great! Dino is my XMPP client of choice, it's good to see a new release. My partner and family use https://quicksy.im/ which is an XMPP client that uses their phone number as username, to give it a "convenient as WhatsApp/Signal" feel. I run the mobile UI branch https://github.com/dino/dino/tree/feature/handy on my Pinephone.

Hey! I am considering buying a pinephone but fear I am not enough of a hacker, an XMPP is one of the few things I need in my pocket computer. How hard is it to get Dino working on the pinephone? Do A/V calls work?

Any general feedback on the pinephone? Is it your main smartphone?

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#36

Post by astrobe_ »

ta-webrtc wrote: post #25
axiosgunnar wrote: post #5

What is the latency on this? Still looking for a call solution that makes you feel like you‘re in the same room…

Latency is as good as you can do when doing peer to peer calls, the trade off is bandwidth (and CPU, but mostly bandwidth). Latency and non-terminated encryption (end-to-end, not point-to-point) is great, and for calls with 3 or fewer peers the stability is fine. More peers than that and you probably want a media router in the mix, which adds some latency (all the calls have to route through a central server) and the…

I didn't find a meaningful difference between "end-to-end" and "point-to-point", except for a not-sourced stackoverflow post [1] and definitions for payment services standards. What is the terminology you use?

[1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10202143/what-is-the-dif...

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#37

Post by larma »

soheilpro wrote: post #30

It's written in Vala [1]. I had never heard of it before. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_(programming_language)

Vala is a nice, modern niche language for GTK development. It certainly can also be used for other things, e.g. it can be compiled to WASM, but GTK development really is focus. Also the language is actively developed and getting updates with new feature. While originally inspired by C# it nowadays also incorporates features known from other modern languages like Kotlin.

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#38

Post by nicoco »

larma wrote: post #24
haunter wrote: post #13

Is there a way to run this on macOS?

It does work, but UX isn't as good and installation is a little tricky. Check out the wiki page here: https://github.com/dino/dino/wiki/macOS

FWIW, got this:

  CMake Error at /opt/homebrew/Cellar/cmake/3.22.2/share/cmake/Modules/FindPackageHandleStandardArgs.cmake:230 (message):
  Could NOT find Soup (missing: Soup_LIBRARY)
  Call Stack (most recent call first):
  /opt/homebrew/Cellar/cmake/3.22.2/share/cmake/Modules/FindPackageHandleStandardArgs.cmake:594 (_FPHSA_FAILURE_MESSAGE)
  cmake/FindSoup.cmake:29 (find_package_handle_standard_args)
  cmake/MultiFind.cmake:20 (find_package)
  plugins/http-files/CMakeLists.txt:1 (find_packages)
trying to follow the instructions you pointed to. Gotta learn CMake some day...

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#39

Post by larma »

ta-webrtc wrote: post #25
axiosgunnar wrote: post #5

What is the latency on this? Still looking for a call solution that makes you feel like you‘re in the same room…

Latency is as good as you can do when doing peer to peer calls, the trade off is bandwidth (and CPU, but mostly bandwidth). Latency and non-terminated encryption (end-to-end, not point-to-point) is great, and for calls with 3 or fewer peers the stability is fine. More peers than that and you probably want a media router in the mix, which adds some latency (all the calls have to route through a central server) and the…

> server typically has done termination of the encrypted call streams as it does its routing.

Dino already supports some kind of "double encryption", where even if DTLS-SRTP is terminated at a media routig or bridging server, there is another SRTP encryption layer. This allows for end-to-end encryption even when DTLS-SRTP is terminated by a server for WebRTC compliance (as WebRTC requires to encrypt using DTLS-SRTP even if transported media was already encrypted through other means).

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#40

Post by larma »

nicoco wrote: post #38
larma wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does work, but UX isn't as good and installation is a little tricky. Check out the wiki page here: https://github.com/dino/dino/wiki/macOS

FWIW, got this: CMake Error at /opt/homebrew/Cellar/cmake/3.22.2/share/cmake/Modules/FindPackageHandleStandardArgs.cmake:230 (message): Could NOT find Soup (missing: Soup_LIBRARY) Call Stack (most recent call first): /opt/homebrew/Cellar/cmake/3.22.2/share/cmake/Modules/FindPackageHandleStandardArgs.cmake:594 (_FPHSA_FAILURE_MESSAGE) cmake/FindSoup.cmake:29 (find_package_handle_standard_args) cmake/MultiFind.cmake:20…

Check out https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/1193
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