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Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

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Re: Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

#31

Post by [deleted] »

alisonatwork wrote: post #11
throwaway984393 wrote: post #7

When is the world of software going to wake up? All programming languages suck, in one way or another. All frontend/backend paradigms suck, in one way or another. This constant churn of new, new, new is a waste. It gets replaced every few years, meaning all the time, effort and money sucked into it is gone. And engineers re-learn the same lessons over, and over, and over again. All so software engineers can be happy,…

After having been in this industry for 20+ years, I can pretty confidently say the world of software will never wake up. It's just been an endless cycle of adding abstractions, removing them again, using back end languages on the front end, using front end languages on the back end, using relational databases instead of a key value store, using key value stores instead of a relational database, unit tests over integr…

[deleted]

Re: Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

#32

Post by tifadg1 »

What does that bring to the table though? You'll still need to write html, css and javascript (or some dsl).

As a hobbyist Python dev who doesn't want to deal with frontend bs more than absolutely needed, I found my perfect stack - fastapi, svelte and tailwindcss.

Re: Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

#36

Post by tasha0663 »

oschvr wrote: post #29
phoe-krk wrote: post #14

See CLOG, the Common Lisp Omnificent GUI - a recent project which is an implementation of this paradigm. https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/s1itqi/the_common_lis... https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/sd9wf1/clog_builder_c...

Unfortunate naming.. "I CLOGed my frontend"

CLOG / GUI interplay makes me think it has to be intentional. It's just too bad in the best way.

Re: Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

#38

Post by streamofdigits »

sfvisser wrote: post #12

I don't think this is really about programming languages. The world of software (and specifically everything network based) is oscillating between fat servers and fat client every few years or so. To me the innovation seems to be orthogonal to this cycle and may actually be accelerated by this continuous change in perspective. Which is good!

if the hardware landscape settles for a while (in terms of the capabilities of devices and networks - which is not a crazy precondition given Moore's law has run its course) then it may be that these server/client pendulum oscillations get damped around an "optimum" of sorts.

An optimum defined both in terms of what it enables users to do with software but also how easy it is for developers to deliver it. Since simple is better than complex it feels that any architecture that does not require two distinct ecosystems might have an advantage (all else being equal).

Re: Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

#39

Post by thrower123 »

jorgeleo wrote: post #22
thrower123 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do dearly hope Blazor works out - I would be so happy to never have to deal with the Javascript/Typescript tooling hell ever again - but I'm not holding my breath. Political shifts inside Microsoft could leave it dead and unsupported like Silverlight tomorrow...

"Political shifts inside Microsoft could leave it dead and unsupported like Silverlight tomorrow" Assumption or knowledge? How do you know this?

I've seen the cycle too many times over the past decade or so. It's really bad with the various desktop UI frameworks, but it happens with most everything they put out. If something doesn't get immediate traction, and doesn't have strong champions inside of Microsoft, things all too often wither on the vine and go by the board. Big bang initial rollout coinciding with Build, showing off some fancy capabilities that never quite actually are realized in the version released to general availability.

Re: Back-end languages are coming to the front-end

#40

Post by arjvik »

girvo wrote: post #5

Funnily enough, PHP (like, old school PHP) is a surprisingly neat fit for this style of programming when combined with htmx[0] Tiny amount of glue HTML attributes, a heap of partials that are your PHP files and you’re good to go. What is old is new again I suppose: we used to do this with PHP and jQuery once upon a time too — though LiveView and similar are far nicer of course. I’ve been working on some personal tool…

I think htmx.org got the HN Hug of Death
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