Anyone know if/when they'll push these changes to their micro-framework Lumen (https://lumen.laravel.com/)?
Laravel 9
31–40 of 262 posts
Re: Laravel 9
#32I've been programming in PHP for around 5 years. I've used vanilla PHP, full featured MVC frameworks, micro frameworks and I've been working with Laravel for around 2 weeks. Worst experience ever. The more I dig into it the more I hate it.
I've been programming in PHP since ~2000, I've created giant systems with vanilla PHP, Kohana, Code Igniter, WordPress, and for the last ~8 years, Laravel. It's been a dream to work with.
I, like others, am curious about what your actual complaints are more than "I hate it".
As others have said, its opinionated, but its opinions tend to be strong ones with good data. It is also extremely customizable, with a smaller learning curve than most other frameworks and a richer community and documentation that the vast majority of frameworks.
If I were to hazard a guess, you're running into your opinion being counter theirs?
Re: Laravel 9
#33_
I fail to see how this is related at all to laravel.
Re: Laravel 9
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
This doesn't match my experience at all, and given Laravel's popularity... this comment would be a lot more valuable with a why . I will say I opt out of the starter packs and Laravel Sail (their Docker-for-dummies basic setup) in favor of a more bespoke setup, but my Laravel experience has been great otherwise.
Not the OP, but one thing that stands out for me is the (lack of) quality of the documentation. It reads more like a book (that tries to explain how to do things) than a reference (an exhaustive list of all classes, methods, parameters etc.). Ok, it's nice to have the former, but the latter would be far more important!
If you think so, it's available here: https://laravel.com/api/master/
Re: Laravel 9
#35I like using plain PHP + PDO MySQL. I structure it so almost all files contain a single function/MySQL query, with very little dependencies. I already know how to implement core functionalities when needed (e.g. CSRF, user permissions). Why should I consider Laravel if plain PHP seems to work excellent in my case (been able to maintain the same codebase for over 9 years without issues, can quickly create a new app if…
For me, its about the higher level things included. I don't want to write a queue, event system, or cache layer again.
Re: Laravel 9
#36For those here wondering why you'd use Laravel over vanilla PHP + MySQL + PDO, a few of my clients had this opinion so I've had experience. The Laravel "fluff" saves you from rewriting tons of code, helps you write test cases, and makes logic easy to follow. One of my clients was very anti "needless vendor packages" (definitely some truth to this sentiment), but we ended up with 14 extra php files reinventing the whe…
yes, that's basically what a framework is for. but you have to follow the framework's way of doing things. most of the time that works well. few times, you may be fighting the framework to achieve some special cases.
you call libraries. framework calls you.
Re: Laravel 9
#37Could somebody say, if you are planning to embark on a new Laravel project and you have no experience, how to begin? I bought a subscription to Laracasts, and there is a "What's New in Laravel 9" series. But "Laravel from Scratch" is still on 8.
Go with the "Laravel from Scratch" on v8 to learn the basics. Then follow up with the "What's new in Laravel 9". I'll be updating to v9 this spring. Laravel has been pretty stable since they changed to semver for versioning (ie v6). The framework is fairly stable. They held off the v9 release so it could have the new Symphony components. A lot of features that would have been released with v9 were added to the v8 framework. v9 may have some breaking changes, but I'd have to really dig through the release notes to find what would affect my app.
I'm more concerned with updating PHP from 7.4.x to 8.x then the framework update. Our test env had issue with one of our blade templates when running under 8.x.
Re: Laravel 9
#38I've been programming in PHP for around 5 years. I've used vanilla PHP, full featured MVC frameworks, micro frameworks and I've been working with Laravel for around 2 weeks. Worst experience ever. The more I dig into it the more I hate it.
Honestly surprised by this. It's an opinionated framework, but it's consistent and the ecosystem is rich with options. I've been very happy working inside the laravel ecosystem for the last couple of years.
A problem with any "opinionated" framework is that people may disagree with the opinions. :)
Re: Laravel 9
#39Could somebody say, if you are planning to embark on a new Laravel project and you have no experience, how to begin? I bought a subscription to Laracasts, and there is a "What's New in Laravel 9" series. But "Laravel from Scratch" is still on 8.
You could try LUMEN which is a lite version of Laravel. Took me around a day or two to fully get what was happening. I'm at the point now where I want to switch a big project I've been working on over to Laravel but it's a bit of a PITA.
Anyway, for hello world stuff or a small api project try beginning with LUMEN.
Re: Laravel 9
#40Laravel and Drupal 7+ frankly ruined PHP for me. PHP as a platform is KISS and elegant, and I still admire some of its features such as built in templating, filesystem based routing, etc. But whenever I look back at Laravel, I remember how dangerous overly complex fluff with a nice logo is to a platform.
Any app without a framework ends up creating a framework of its own. Complexity isn't something to hand-wave away, but neither is the mess of include's and SQL injection risks that many "vanilla" apps become.