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Managing People

klinger.io

31–40 of 98 posts

Re: Managing People

#31
Maybe it’s just the mood I’m in, but I found this list/notes style basically impossible to parse.

Why are any of these things true? Credentials alone are not going to get me to blindly accept any of this; maybe some reasoning would help, a few anecdotes, conversations with other experts (or at least quotes) so I can relate this content to other content and start to fit this info in with everything else I already know…

This reads like tacit knowledge, a series of immensely complex if/else statements, that don’t really come across well in text without immense effort, and that effort was not taken here.

Re: Managing People

#32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have meaning so people feel better about being offboarded instead of fired.

yes. where I live, only when you have done something really bad - you can get fired. If you are fired it might be very difficult to find a new job. If you get offboarded, or let-go, then it is different. You haven't done anything bad that could potentially block your future; there is a better narrative for you to use when looking for new employment.

I'm also European and do not notice a difference between being fired and let go. In both cases your contract is terminated by your employer. If it's about meaning, the meaning is the same. Since we likely do not live in English speaking countries (I don't at least), it's difficult to map these words to any concepts that might exist somewhere else and say one is better than the other. A more European thing would be to actually forbid the employer to signal in any way why your contract was terminated, so that it interferes with your future career.

Re: Managing People

#33
> It's hard to get people to own a problem space fully

At least in my experience this is because a manager doesn't want to give their reports full ownership over something. That is, responsibility for the outcome and (much more importantly) decision making authority for how they deliver results.

Managers (almost) always want people to take responsibility, but don't want to give up authority.

Re: Managing People

#34
post #13

The author mentions firing people in almost every point. Is firing people in the US so easy that it is a go-to solution to solve these problems?

Yes, most states are "at-will", which means you can be fired for any non-illegal reason at any time, barring any existing contracts.

Wow it's next to impossible here in NZ.

Re: Managing People

#35

>As a manager, everything is your fault This is a low quality solution for ownership and only works for some types, leads to burnout in others. It also contradicts one of the good points in the article: "Burnout comes from a felt loss of control and/or impact". You cannot expect from yourself to be able to correct processes for everything. In my experience, better solution is (when it is possible) to have shared owne…

I think a better way to phrase his point is that responsibility rolls upward. You cannot delegate responsibility for an outcome, though you can share it.

Re: Managing People

#36

>As a manager, everything is your fault This is a low quality solution for ownership and only works for some types, leads to burnout in others. It also contradicts one of the good points in the article: "Burnout comes from a felt loss of control and/or impact". You cannot expect from yourself to be able to correct processes for everything. In my experience, better solution is (when it is possible) to have shared owne…

In NZ we basically have this in law when it comes to safety. If someone gets hurt it's Management's fault. If they pulled all the safeties off the machine and stuck their hands in while it was running, then it's your fault for not training them not too. Unless you have paperwork to prove you did train them not to.

Re: Managing People

#37
post #13

The author mentions firing people in almost every point. Is firing people in the US so easy that it is a go-to solution to solve these problems?

I've fired some people in an EU setting; and have also been let go myself (layoff round, I never took it personally). It's true that countries outside the US have more legal checks and balances around this topic. But it's not true that it's impossible to fire people. Basically, those checks and balances are mostly for good reasons. And I've noticed that better employers in the US tend to use them as well even if they are not required to. Mostly the bureaucracy around firing people is a bit more efficient but the process is loosely the same; or at least it should be. In some places it isn't of course.

Basically there are a few different scenarios here:

1) somebody committed a firing offense. This is rare but it happens and it requires immediate action. These are in a way the easiest because they are usually so clear cut and sometimes it involves legal action as well. I've never had to do this myself but I've seen it happen to other people around me. We're talking clear cut cases of "WTF did that person just do?!". You get legal involved and make it happen. It's unpleasant and you'll have no choice.

2) mutually agreed consensus about somebody's performance. This is the "it shouldn't be a surprise" situation. This usually happens after you've created plenty of opportunities for the person to improve. Often that just doesn't happen and you need take it to the next level. It's stressful and it involves building a case against a person such that they can't ignore the reality that they are indeed not delivering. Mostly people like this leave by themselves. For me the test of this done well is me being able to meet these people afterwards to have a friendly/courteous chat over coffee/beer a few years later. I'm often pleasantly surprised to see that people moved on and improved themselves. Sometimes firing somebody can be the best thing you do for a person from a career development point of view. Don't make it personal.

3) financial difficulty sometimes makes it necessary to make tough choices. Usually people that were performing less (see 2) would be the first ones to go. This sometimes comes as a surprise. In my case I got an excellent performance review, a little raise, and was out on the street two months later. It wasn't personal and I was definitely surprised/shocked. I've since had to fire people in struggling startups a couple of times. It sucks. For everybody. If it feels like failure, it's because it is. I've had to fire friends even. And we're still friends.

Simple recommendations when firing:

- Build consensus about the action with your direct peers. You are representing your company here and relaying a joint company decision. So, make sure it's a fair decision that everybody can stand behind. Firing somebody should not come as a surprise to your peers.

- Be straight about this happening on your recommendation though. Don't hide behind the company.

- Expect people to be shocked, emotional, etc. and be ready for this. So, don't ask them to take any difficult decisions on the spot. But inevitably, some paper work may be involved and some legal steps on both sides.

- Focus on the core facts of the situation and avoid any debating or arguing.

- Lead with the core message: "I have some bad news for you ...".

- Have an off-boarding plan and communicate that plan. "This is what happens next".

Re: Managing People

#38
post #9

He makes it sound as if you can just fire people at will.

Well, can't you? Sure it depends on country, but the problem normally seems to be that companies want to fire people and not compensate them. I think most countries allows you to fire people pretty much when even, it's just that it can be rather expensive. You can't fire pregnant women, that's almost impossible, you can't fire because of skin color, religion, handicaps (unless it prevents you from doing your job), bu…

Yeah I worked with a company that had a very incompetent employee. They almost had enough warnings to fire the employee, then the employee came out as trans. No one was phased by that, however it made them impossible to fire. They couldn't do it without it appearing that it was due to that employee being trans. So they hired an extra person to make sure the job got done.

Re: Managing People

#39

Maybe it’s just the mood I’m in, but I found this list/notes style basically impossible to parse. Why are any of these things true? Credentials alone are not going to get me to blindly accept any of this; maybe some reasoning would help, a few anecdotes, conversations with other experts (or at least quotes) so I can relate this content to other content and start to fit this info in with everything else I already know…

Worked fine for me. The brevity is exactly what I need instead of wading through tons of often unnecessary text.

It's all common sense - which too many of my bosses just didn't have - and the summary form help bring them to focus. IMO it's good. YMMV, I appreciate.

Re: Managing People

#40
post #24

This article should be obligatory reading material for everyone. Considering how it focuses on empathy and leadership I find it a little odd that they use the terminology "hire/fire" which in my opinion is hostile/negative loaded words. Imo it would be better to use something like allocate/re-allocate assign/reassign delegate/replace on-boarded/off-boarded hired/let go words have meaning and should be used carefully…

Words have meaning so people feel better about being offboarded instead of fired.

Sorry Dave, you’ve been discontinued.
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