App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee • Hacker News Board

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#31

Post by zepto » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

JanSt wrote: post #26

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

As an Apple user, I kind of view the App Store as a kind of collective bargaining with app developers. If you want to have access to Apple Users you need to adhere to certain standards. The plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Apple are some of the scummiest companies and their software is full of dark patterns. Apple’s App Store does a lot to protect me. I guess I view this bill much as a union member might view a “Rig…

Everyone would be glad if Apple and Google would drastically drop their cut to 5%-7%. They basically take a risk free 15-30% stake in revenues (!) of many companies that serve users on mobile devices.

Well then that’s what the bill should say.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#32

Post by m463 » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #22

> New rules could require them both to allow app side-loading — installing apps from non-sanctioned marketplaces — and alternative payment processing systems. Apple and Google have argued vehemently against the bill. Why is Google against side-loading? It is already possible to side-load on Android devices, what is their argument?

> Why is Google against side-loading?

money?

If it is explicitly allowed, it will open the door for some extremely high quality, curated stores that can break google's iron grip on revenue, advertising, privacy, etc...

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#33

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 6:57 PM UTC

ribosometronome wrote: post #23

jliptzin wrote: post #7

Surprised it took this long. If they would have taken a more reasonable 5-10% of developer earnings they’d still collect billions upon billions in rent while not angering millions of developers and lawmakers writing this legislation. Or at least charge a tiered annual publication fee plus payment processing fees. But greed got the best of them. Their fees are akin to a shopping mall owner taking 30% of store revenues…

>Oh and by the way, there’s no other malls in town to move your business to. I mean, given that this bill is targeting two companies, I'm not sure your analogy holds. There clearly is another mall you could move to. You just wouldn't get the patrons at the other mall. And they charge the same and always have. And, your business doesn't even have to be located in the mall if you think the fees are unreasonable. You ju…

There are two malls, both are charging the same ridiculous fees and have created a situation where competition is not possible.

The fix for that is legislative, not judicial. The legislature can decide that two malls with bad rates is a situation that needs fixing.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#34

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

e4e78a06 wrote: post #6

stuff4ben wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to side with the tech companies (Apple in particular) due to the security issues and review process. It's not perfect and the cut seems excessive IMO, but there is value there that can't be dismissed outright. It'll be interesting to see how Apple and Google handle this. Maybe they'll allow side-loading with big, scary language? Or perhaps a cheaper or even free tier for developers to allow apps on their respe…

Android already has side loading, and Epic tried and failed to get a third party store going. I highly doubt this bill will do anything unless it mandates that Google can't mandate Google Play Store as a condition of receiving development support.

Epic had moderate success, as does f-droid.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#35

Post by m463 » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

stuff4ben wrote: post #4

chomp wrote: post #2

Sudden outbreak of common sense. I hope this passes and forces Google/Apple to justify the value that their app stores provide, for the amount that they take from developers.

I tend to side with the tech companies (Apple in particular) due to the security issues and review process. It's not perfect and the cut seems excessive IMO, but there is value there that can't be dismissed outright. It'll be interesting to see how Apple and Google handle this. Maybe they'll allow side-loading with big, scary language? Or perhaps a cheaper or even free tier for developers to allow apps on their respe…

But what if there was a "Bruce Schneier" app store?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#36

Post by pornel » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #22

> New rules could require them both to allow app side-loading — installing apps from non-sanctioned marketplaces — and alternative payment processing systems. Apple and Google have argued vehemently against the bill. Why is Google against side-loading? It is already possible to side-load on Android devices, what is their argument?

Mobile app stores are a duopoly, so Google can charge as much as Apple charges.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#37

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

nojito wrote: post #8

I personally can’t wait for students to be forced to install apps from third party stores that collect all their information because their schools have a contract with the developers and have made it mandatory. Same will be true of employees and their employers.

Your employer can already do this on both platforms, and Apple totally bent over for China and their abusive apps.

This needs a fix, and clearly we don't have one currently. No reason to let another ill occur in the meantime.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#38

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

As an Apple user, I kind of view the App Store as a kind of collective bargaining with app developers. If you want to have access to Apple Users you need to adhere to certain standards. The plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Apple are some of the scummiest companies and their software is full of dark patterns. Apple’s App Store does a lot to protect me. I guess I view this bill much as a union member might view a “Rig…

Then don't use third party stores. Done.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#39

Post by arrosenberg » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 7:02 PM UTC

nojito wrote: post #8

I personally can’t wait for students to be forced to install apps from third party stores that collect all their information because their schools have a contract with the developers and have made it mandatory. Same will be true of employees and their employers.

Can you explain how this is materially different from the apps corporate security already makes you install on devices to allow them to track and wipe the device? How it is materially different from what goes on my laptop?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#40

Post by enragedcacti » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 7:03 PM UTC

veilrap wrote: post #24

grishka wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't general-purpose devices. You can't even get official SDKs unless you're a game studio.

They are just as general purpose as my phone. It's quite easy to sideload applications onto an Xbox console for example.

courts don't really care about technicalities like that. No one is filing their taxes or sending out work emails on their Xbox so its not the same even if someone hypothetically could.