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Cryptocurrency Is a Giant Ponzi Scheme

jacobinmag.com

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Re: Cryptocurrency Is a Giant Ponzi Scheme

#31

Post by prepend »

rjakobsson wrote: post #27
prepend wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s great news, but the major projects like BiCoin and Ethereum are super expensive to do transactions. I hope Algorand takes off as micropayments are a really nice use case and I’d like to be able to use it. Just simple stuff like sending $20 worth on a paper wallet to niblings for their birthday. I just want to stop using cash.

I’m sorry, but you are vey misinformed regarding the transaction cost of Bitcoin.

What’s the best way to check out transaction costs.

This site [0] shows the average transaction cost at US$1.675.

And the same site [1] shows ethereum at US$3.916.

This is much lower than the last time I checked. But still impractical for any real uses. A few dollars per transaction is bad, especially when the price can fluctuate 20% per day.

Here’s the blurb from their site “ Average Transaction Fee is at a current level of 3.916, up from 3.227 yesterday and down from 17.67 one year ago. This is a change of 21.36% from yesterday and -77.84% from one year ago.”

[0] https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f...

[1] https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_...

Re: Cryptocurrency Is a Giant Ponzi Scheme

#32

Post by truffdog »

atoav wrote: post #24
k__ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the critique became quite boring in the last year. "You're burning the world!" "We are saving the world!" Both are obviously BS.

Last time I checked (2021) the CO2 emissions of one bitcoin transaction was equivalent to driving over 2000 km in an average middle european car from the same year (see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/philippsandner/2021/11/19/bitco... ) Unless I made an error here, or that study is flawed this seems to me like a ridiculously huge amount?

> What matters is the source of the electricity that is consumed. It is key to distinguish between renewable sources of electricity and fossil fuels. We do this by taking into account the total electricity mix of each country to convert Bitcoin’s electricity consumption into its carbon footprint.

Jumps out to me as being not particularly precise. In the US, for instance, you need to take a much more local view- bit coin mining tends to be clustered near hydro power. This pulls the opposite way with coal plants in the boonies of China.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is a Giant Ponzi Scheme

#34

Post by sitkack »

prepend wrote: post #8
sitkack wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most investments are Ponzi schemes including all forms of currency. I don't want to get into an argument about the short term investments and liquidity in the markets, bla bla bla. They could be tools, but they end up becoming the ends. Why?

This is not true at all as most investments have some intrinsic thing of value. A stock is a predicted stream of future earnings. A Ponzi scheme produces nothing and only survives through new investment. Stocks don’t need future investment as they can just pay out dividends forever based on the companies earnings. Equating these two things seems fraudulent at worst and stupid at best.

People rocking Robin Hood are not investing. Institutional investors are investing.

> Equating these two things seems fraudulent at worst and stupid at best.

Please.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is a Giant Ponzi Scheme

#35

Post by rufus_foreman »

TAKEMYMONEY wrote: post #19

The author makes the common mistake of conflating market manipulation with a Ponzi scheme. This is unfortunate, because we've seen real Ponzi schemes that use crypto (Bitconnect, PlusToken, Onecoin) and it makes it harder to talk about them when "Ponzi scheme" gets so watered down.

I admire you for fighting the good fight, but I think I've given up on it. I tried. Ponzi scheme in the vernacular now just means any sort of speculation. Tulips, crypto, whatever, it's all Ponzi schemes.

Which makes it harder to describe frauds like the one Charles Ponzi perpetrated but oh well.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is a Giant Ponzi Scheme

#36

Post by atoav »

rjakobsson wrote: post #28
atoav wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked (2021) the CO2 emissions of one bitcoin transaction was equivalent to driving over 2000 km in an average middle european car from the same year (see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/philippsandner/2021/11/19/bitco... ) Unless I made an error here, or that study is flawed this seems to me like a ridiculously huge amount?

This is a false comparison.

Please explain why, because I'd intuitively expect the comparison between kgCO2 of bitcoin transactions to gCO2 of car driving to be valid, assuming underlying numbers are true and not off by many magnitudes which I cannot judge (as stated).

Re: Cryptocurrency Is a Giant Ponzi Scheme

#37

Post by atoav »

truffdog wrote: post #32
atoav wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked (2021) the CO2 emissions of one bitcoin transaction was equivalent to driving over 2000 km in an average middle european car from the same year (see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/philippsandner/2021/11/19/bitco... ) Unless I made an error here, or that study is flawed this seems to me like a ridiculously huge amount?

> What matters is the source of the electricity that is consumed. It is key to distinguish between renewable sources of electricity and fossil fuels. We do this by taking into account the total electricity mix of each country to convert Bitcoin’s electricity consumption into its carbon footprint. Jumps out to me as being not particularly precise. In the US, for instance, you need to take a much more local view- bit c…

Yeah but even if they are off by a magnitude and it would only be the equivalent of a 200km car drive it would be way to much.
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