How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#31

Post by goda90 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

Shaanie wrote: post #13

lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

I wonder which modern information would be actually useful a thousand years ago. Things like electricity, cumbustion engine etc wouldn't be very useful, but perhaps something steam-powered? One low-hanging fruit would be sterilization and hand-washing for medical operations, at least.

Humans have been working with glass for a really long time. I wonder how hard it would be to make a microscope and kick off germ theory and antibiotics and such back then.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#32

Post by bluGill » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #19

lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. But we do know some things that would seem like crazy hacks to the ancients. For example, I know a simple trick. I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. This would have blown the minds of a learned Roman o…

> Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism.

Sure you could. The antikythera mechanism shows more than enough skill and precision to make a small one. It might only be a toy for the rich though. I'm not sure if you could afford enough metal to make one large enough to do useful work, and even if you could the fuel required might kill it (coal wasn't really available at the time, though knowing it is useful might be enough to find and use it). The metals of the time where not up to a modern high pressure (and thus efficient) steam engine, but a large low pressure steam engine is perfectly possible.

That said, water or wind power would be a much better invention to focus your efforts on. I'm not sure how much of that they had though.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#33

Post by slowhand09 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #2

Something that continually just blows my mind is how new spinning wheels are. The most plausible range of time of arrival of the wheel in European contexts is between the mid-1200s to about 1340, which means that textiles produced previously to that were made with drop spindles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindle_(textiles)#Hand_spindl... That includes things like clothing, but it also includes more staggering ide…

A lifetime ago I worked in a textile mill in the US. After a several months I worked my way up to be a machine operator, a weaver. I had upwards of 50 weaving machines I kept operating thru my shift. Each of these produced probably 80meters * 6meters of fabric in an 8 hour shift. And at this rate, mills in southeast asia were able to undercut prices so much the US industry collapsed.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#34

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

rsecora wrote: post #10

lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

Right, and getting the finance to start the journey will be problematic. The elevator pitch for the musket will sound like black magic.

In ancient Greece, I wouldn't be surprised if a crossbow (a bow that can be used with relatively little training!) wouldn't be more useful than very primitive firearms.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#35

Post by bluGill » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

rsecora wrote: post #10

lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

Right, and getting the finance to start the journey will be problematic. The elevator pitch for the musket will sound like black magic.

I'm not sure even with an unlimited budget you could get metals that would work as a musket. A cannon could be done if you know how, but the cost of that much metal would mean you would need the unlimited budget.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#36

Post by ch4s3 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #16

ska wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clothing remains expensive, except we don't see the true cost. Not really comparably. Lots of externalities and some weird market distortions, sure. But still, we're an order of magnitude or two cheaper now at minimum. Especially if you are comparing day-to-day functional clothing, where it's more likely 3.

More like three. Went from $1500 to $1.50. At a minimum wage job in the US, you can buy multiple shirts per hour worked. It would literally blow the mind of ancient people (maybe even moreso than something like a Computer), as it's something they have and work with - but the price is so different.

The idea that someone on a laborers salary could afford the material standard of people in much of the world today would be astonishing. My own grandmother grew up wearing clothes made from repurposed flour sacks, and that was only 90 years ago. The last two centuries of human progress are staggering to think about.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#37

Post by mynameishere » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

Modern business suit prices in other words or thereabouts.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#38

Post by robbomacrae » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #19

lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. But we do know some things that would seem like crazy hacks to the ancients. For example, I know a simple trick. I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. This would have blown the minds of a learned Roman o…

Why not build a printing press? All you really need to do is carve some wood. As expensive as tunics were, books were much more so. Copying the bible would have taken several months (if not years) of labour. And the ability and control to spread such knowledge faster than others would not only be very lucrative but a source of great power.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#39

Post by emaginniss » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #24

wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

> That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective. Also probably the source of the "they'd take the shirt of his back" saying.

The phrase is usually "he'd give you the shirt off his back." That's much nicer

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#40

Post by mhalle » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #24

wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

> That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective. Also probably the source of the "they'd take the shirt of his back" saying.

Probably not. "Steal the shirt off someone's back" means to take everything from a person, even the most basic and least significant item of clothing that they are wearing, and leave them with nothing.