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Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

scotthyoung.com

31–40 of 158 posts

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#31
> Many students are only taught math as symbol manipulation. Less instruction is focused on identifying situations where it might be useful. We need to give students more training in noticing and converting everyday situations into the math problems they know how to solve.

No, please don't do this. When I was learning math as a kid I found word problems incredibly irritating and stupid. It's just a way to waste a few seconds of my time when I just want to solve the problem and get to the next one. Word problems are just disrespectful

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#32
To me this is coming at the issue from the wrong angle. Sure, mathematics classes in elementary through high school have the veneer of teaching mathematics, but they also teach logical thinking and problem solving.

Identifying a problem (in math class the problems usually come pre-identfied until you tackle the dreaded story problems) and breaking down the problem into logical steps, are useful skills to have even if someone never does another math problem in their life.

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#33
post #26

When I started learning woodwork I was really excited to apply geometry which I hadn't used much since highschool (even working with geospatial data vis). However as I've progressed I find myself using math less and less and it's often faster and more accurate not to measure or calculate. To give an example, making a three legged stool I needed 3 equally spaced spaced points around a circle, I could find the center,…

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Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#34
My answer: because most of the math we learn in school is useless.

I see a lot of math homework questions on Quora, because students copypaste their homework all the time:

What is log (3x +2)- log2 =1? How do you prove that X^2-3 is irrational? What are the roots of the equation x4−4x3+6x2−4x+4=0?

When on earth are you ever going to use any of that?

The word problems are no better.

       In a group of 20 adults, 4 out of 7 women and 2 out of 13 men wear glasses. What is the probability that a person chosen at random from the group is a woman or wears glasses?

       Mr. Tay had 20 female fish and 5 male fish in a pond. Mr. Tay’s father brought some male fish and put them in the pond. Then he found 1/5 of the fish are female. How many male fish did his father put into the pond?

       In a school interhouse competition, 80% of the students turned up for the athletic competition, 60% turned up at the football match. What percentage of the students attended both functions?
These just aren't the kinds of questions anybody ever actually asks. The math required to solve them is pragmatic; are there no pragmatic examples they can come up with?

The fact that students are copypasting their homework doesn't thrill me for their ethics or their intelligence. But the fact that the problems themselves are so stultifyingly dull almost makes it seem reasonable.

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#35
post #27
post #8

Math is incredibly useful; probably everyone here knows that. But it's actually fine that most people don't use it. What we really need is for every student to realize why math is useful -- so that if they want to, they can go learn it so that they can make some kind of technological contribution to the world. The fact is, you need to be good at math to make some new fundamental breakthroughs in technology. Those bre…

Any good resources that help instill the "why"?

I'm working on a reference guide here for exactly that: https://github.com/EternityForest/AnyoneCanDoIt/blob/master/...

It's basically "Here's some cool stuff math can do, and interesting historical anecdotes, and how to make a computer do it without actually understanding any of it, and here's what you could do if you actually understood it"

There may be errors because... I don't actually understand it and can't derive it myself, so I'm relying entirely on sources.

But I think there's value in a text on math by someone with no talent for it, since most books even for beginners assume people have a certain level of ability and treat things i would call very hard as obvious.

I don't have any excercises or material on how to actually DO the math, just how to use a CAS solver, I leave the actual teaching of math to those who understand it and focus on showing how it's relevant at all to those of us who don't want to go back and study for two years.

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#36
I think this question stems from a confusion as to what school is actually for. It seems to me that school is at least as much about orderly management of the social hierarchy as it is about teaching useful skills.

The reason why math is taught in school is not because math is useful (it is useful in certain situations, but this is only tangentially related). We teach it because it keeps students busy and out of trouble, and lends itself well to unambiguous testing and is therefore an effective tool for sorting students into the various social classes.

This all became clear to me when I was in the middle of my math PhD and wondering why all of the math courses I had taken did next to nothing to prepare me for actual mathematical research.

Viewed from this perspective, it’s obvious why we don’t use the math we learn in school.

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#37
post #8

Math is incredibly useful; probably everyone here knows that. But it's actually fine that most people don't use it. What we really need is for every student to realize why math is useful -- so that if they want to, they can go learn it so that they can make some kind of technological contribution to the world. The fact is, you need to be good at math to make some new fundamental breakthroughs in technology. Those bre…

> Math is incredibly useful

For what? It isn't useful for teenagers who are trying to get laid and be cool, at all. It also isn't useful for what 99% of humans end up doing, unless by math you mean basic arithmetic, enough to add and subtract on your 'smart' phone.

Math isn't useful. People who are amazing at math and are interested in it - they can be useful, but mostly not.

What they don't teach in school is how the real world works, because it is fucking outrageous. What they teach is how to go be a cog in a machine, run by idiots.

They don't teach it by telling you, they teach it by making you sit still, listen and do arbitrary, idiotic tasks for 12 years.

Sure they teach you a thing or two along the way, but anyone would learn more from doing anything else they were interested in for 12 years.

That's the dirty little secret. If you let people do what they are interested in, they'll learn math, programming, exercise, health, whatever, because it'll be necessary to achieve their goals. But you can't make people who've had a taste of achieving their goals slave away their whole life to help some idiot achieve theirs. Plus most parents are fearful idiots who never treat children like human beings, they treat them like their personal pet project whose goal is to line up with society's idea of success. Pathetic. Oh well, that's people for you :)

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#39
Why don't we use the [History|English Lit.|Chemistry|etc.] that we learn in school?

As a generality, isn't the math taught to most teens in public schools aimed pretty squarely at preparing them to take the standard calculus courses in their first couple years of college? If so, hardly surprising that most ex-students don't notice much use for that stuff in the real world.

And since the social function of that is usually to demonstrate that you're determined / focused / upper-class enough to successfully slog your way through it - gee, what would be the point to remembering or using it after getting your "made it through" bragging rights?

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#40
post #2

I can remember failing math class hard throughout my entire academic career. I never passed a math class past primary school, and ended up dropping out of high school. The concepts simply never made sense to me, and as they were presented were just meaningless rote exercises of memorization. Math was something I had completely written off as ever being able to understand. Then I took calculus and trig classes in coll…

My experience too - I wanted to make games so when we had trigonometry and analytic geometry in class I was like "yes please, I can use this, more". Same with vector and matrix algebra later.

Meanwhile I had little use for calculus so I only learnt it enough to get a good grade.

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