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James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

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Re: James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

#31

Post by logjam »

ktsmith wrote: post #20
logjam wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching link #3, it look like an accelerated maneuver stall: the left wing appears to drop (which I think would be normal stall/spin behavior for clockwise rotating prop) after the abrupt pull up, the aircraft rolls inverted, and there isn't sufficient altitude to recover.

Here's a pic of the plane right before the crash: http://cessnateur.blogspot.com/2011/09/reno-crash-trim-tab-t...

The left elevator trim panel looks gone. By itself I wouldn't think that would cause loss of control, but could have precipitated events in a chain often seen in air accidents.

Re: James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

#33

Post by chaz »

prof_hobart wrote: post #23
spokengent wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure going to an air show/air race is a fairly risky decision in the grand scale of things.

I wouldn't think so. How many people have ever died at airshows compared to how many go to them? It may look dangerous, but (except for very rare exceptions) it's just a fun day out.

Airshows can be deadly to pilots, but up until this tragedy, safe for spectators: "John Cudahy, the president of the International Council of Air Shows, said Friday that no spectators have died at any air show in the country since 1952."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-air-sho...

Re: James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

#34

Post by prof_hobart »

cookiecaper wrote: post #25
prof_hobart wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't think so. How many people have ever died at airshows compared to how many go to them? It may look dangerous, but (except for very rare exceptions) it's just a fun day out.

There's a comment further down this thread that shows four air show related fatalities in the past month. I would think that going somewhere where you know you will be in close proximity to aircraft performing advanced stunts is one of the riskier places most people decide to go, even if the actual fatality rate is pretty low.

The other ones were deaths of participants rather than spectators though.

If there's very rarely any fatalities, or even injuries, amongst the millions of people who go to airshows every year (the attendance at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh is around 800,000 every year for example, and Paris Airshow is around 350,000 people, plus the hundreds if not thousands of airshows like this one in Reno), how is it particularly risky?

Re: James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

#35

Post by aw3c2 »

chaz wrote: post #33
prof_hobart wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't think so. How many people have ever died at airshows compared to how many go to them? It may look dangerous, but (except for very rare exceptions) it's just a fun day out.

Airshows can be deadly to pilots, but up until this tragedy, safe for spectators: "John Cudahy, the president of the International Council of Air Shows, said Friday that no spectators have died at any air show in the country since 1952." http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-air-sho...

There are airshows in other countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_airshow_disaster (might even count as US ground as it was a US military base).

Re: James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

#37

Post by BasDirks »

mattdeboard wrote: post #11
tansey wrote: post #7

I know this is the internet and everyone (including me) watches every video link to any event, but please seriously consider whether you really want to watch the links people are posting here. Effectively what happens is the plane is being followed by the camera, then when it crashes the camera loses focus for 2s, then refocuses in on a dead body, pans around to a few dead bodies, and zooms out to show you a bunch of…

Interesting to contrast Mr. Gosling's account to this one: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AIR_SHOW_CRASH?SIT... A lady ~90ft (or nearly twice the distance from the disaster as Mr. Gosling) from the accident said, "I saw body parts and gore like you wouldn't believe it. I'm talking an arm, a leg," Higgins said "The alive people were missing body parts. I am not kidding you. It was gore. Unbelievable gore."…

I have seen the videos, and there were plenty of missing limbs. Don't watch if you're sensitive to that.

Re: James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

#38

Post by gvb »

logjam wrote: post #31
ktsmith wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a pic of the plane right before the crash: http://cessnateur.blogspot.com/2011/09/reno-crash-trim-tab-t...

The left elevator trim panel looks gone. By itself I wouldn't think that would cause loss of control, but could have precipitated events in a chain often seen in air accidents.

It is probably fully deflected. If it were deflected inadvertently, it would be very difficult to recover control of airplane pitch at the speeds and low altitudes where this occurred.

Another possibility is that the elevator control itself was lost and the pilot is desperately attempting to regain control using the trim tab to control airplane pitch.

Re: James Gosling witnesses and blogs Reno airshow crash.

#40

Post by kennystone »

ktsmith wrote: post #26
prof_hobart wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't think so. How many people have ever died at airshows compared to how many go to them? It may look dangerous, but (except for very rare exceptions) it's just a fun day out.

We can look at the Reno air races as an example. It's been going on for 49 years and prior to today there were 19 deaths, none involving spectators. I've been going to the races for a lot of years though we decided not to this year, the course isn't that close to the spectators and much of it happens over open desert.

Yes and we can also use common sense to know an 80 year old dude flying a highly modified racing plane right above spectators is spectacularly stupid.
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