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Gemini is Solutionism

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Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#31

Post by cr__ »

dvt wrote: post #28

> The modern web sucks I think that this premise is wrong. The modern web does not suck. FB is usable by my grandma (at 89 she posts semi-regularly!), but there's no way she could understand how to set up an IRC client, how to telnet into servers, or how to write markdown. Of course, there's a lot of bad and a lot of baggage that comes with companies like Facebook and Google, but it's important to keep some perspecti…

And Facebook tracks your grandma's internet activities and manipulates her emotional state for profit.

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#32

Post by chayleaf »

adamrezich wrote: post #12
barakm wrote: post #3

You’re entirely right; the sole reason for Gemini is to exclude people. It’s more than solutionism, it’s elitism. It’s some people hiding their content to the quote-unquote “cool” kids and claiming it’s a “better” solution just because the primary clients are terminal based. Which is why nothing of value is lost by ignoring it, IMO.

> It’s more than solutionism, it’s elitism. > elitism (n.) the advocacy or existence of an elite as a dominating element in a system or society. where does this idea come from? why can't people make their own spaces in their own corners of the Internet without being considered "elitist?" is HN "elitist"? 4chan? Usenet? ZeroNet?

the second definition you didn't list is "the attitude or behavior of a person or group who regard themselves as belonging to an elite", which is the meaning used in this case. I don't agree that's elitism either, just wanted to point this out

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#33

Post by captn3m0 »

KerrAvon wrote: post #25
captn3m0 wrote: post #11

I wish browsers supported text/markdown.

Which variant of Markdown would that implement? Would it allow embedded HTML (for tables and such) as the original Markdown implementation did?

Same as how browsers compete with new HTML tags and such - CommonMark + few extensions could be standardized) with others left to the browsers to decide.

HTML inside markdown is anyway legal as per the standard, so anyone could use for anything complicated anyway.

Such an implementation would also lead to users having more control and say in how the web pages look (similar to Gemini), by letting you read most content across most websites in fonts, styles, and colors of your choosing. This aids a lot in accessibility as well.

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#34

Post by Permit »

cr__ wrote: post #31
dvt wrote: post #28

> The modern web sucks I think that this premise is wrong. The modern web does not suck. FB is usable by my grandma (at 89 she posts semi-regularly!), but there's no way she could understand how to set up an IRC client, how to telnet into servers, or how to write markdown. Of course, there's a lot of bad and a lot of baggage that comes with companies like Facebook and Google, but it's important to keep some perspecti…

And Facebook tracks your grandma's internet activities and manipulates her emotional state for profit.

> manipulates her emotional state for profit.

Can you share more on this? I've heard they conducted large-scale studies of emotional state[1], but I never heard about a link to profit before.

[1] https://www.pnas.org/content/111/24/8788

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#35

Post by ori_b »

square_usual wrote: post #26
brimble wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it would be really nice to have back a Web where clicking a link couldn't result in loading a page that's tracking your mouse movements while you're on it. IOW a web that's safe and user-controlled, again. Just a damn hypertext document browser that doesn't also bundle a spying suite and hand control of it to anyone by default. We should have realized when people started putting up troll pages that broke your com…

> Eh, it would be really nice to have back a Web where clicking a link couldn't result in loading a page that's tracking your mouse movements while you're on it. It's still possible if you use uBlock, or enable JS only when you need it. You don't have to throw the baby (gemtext missing inline links !) out with the bathwater.

It would be nice to use a platform without actively working to fight the intentions of the pages you visit.

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#36

Post by yardstick »

latch wrote: post #10
daveevad wrote: post #4

Super pedantic but you don't need to send the Host header either to get a response. I use the telnet trick often as debug step number one.

OP is correct. HTTP/1.1 requires the Host header (1). The client must send it, and the server must reject requests without it. Some implementations simply don't follow the standard. For example, you can test this on twitter.com, which appears to be correctly following the specification. (1) https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7230#section-5.4

OP is only correct if using HTTP/1.1 and not 1.0 or 0.9.

I’ve done plenty of telnets using 1.0 without the need for the host header. Just depends on if the server is a dedicated server or running a bunch of hosts (and the default host isn’t the one you want).

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#37

Post by croes »

dvt wrote: post #28

> The modern web sucks I think that this premise is wrong. The modern web does not suck. FB is usable by my grandma (at 89 she posts semi-regularly!), but there's no way she could understand how to set up an IRC client, how to telnet into servers, or how to write markdown. Of course, there's a lot of bad and a lot of baggage that comes with companies like Facebook and Google, but it's important to keep some perspecti…

Where is the contradiction?

A lot of usable things suck.

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#38

Post by throwawayboise »

Permit wrote: post #34
cr__ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Facebook tracks your grandma's internet activities and manipulates her emotional state for profit.

> manipulates her emotional state for profit. Can you share more on this? I've heard they conducted large-scale studies of emotional state[1], but I never heard about a link to profit before. [1] https://www.pnas.org/content/111/24/8788

They manipulate for engagement, more time on site, to show more ads.

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#39

Post by dopidopHN »

ori_b wrote: post #35
square_usual wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, it would be really nice to have back a Web where clicking a link couldn't result in loading a page that's tracking your mouse movements while you're on it. It's still possible if you use uBlock, or enable JS only when you need it. You don't have to throw the baby (gemtext missing inline links !) out with the bathwater.

It would be nice to use a platform without actively working to fight the intentions of the pages you visit.

It’s like the walled garden of Twitter, Instagram, freaking Pinterest… You need their account / app or both to see their content.

I like that the protocols prevent any abuse.

Re: Gemini is Solutionism

#40

Post by throwawayboise »

dvt wrote: post #28

> The modern web sucks I think that this premise is wrong. The modern web does not suck. FB is usable by my grandma (at 89 she posts semi-regularly!), but there's no way she could understand how to set up an IRC client, how to telnet into servers, or how to write markdown. Of course, there's a lot of bad and a lot of baggage that comes with companies like Facebook and Google, but it's important to keep some perspecti…

Let's be honest, 99% of what your grandma has to tell you could be put in an email with no intermediating parties. The web is totally unnecessary for that.
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