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Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

wired.com

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Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#31

Post by CoastalCoder »

gorjusborg wrote: post #17

This type of 'update' is one reason I tend to stay away from so-called 'smart' devices. If part of the product I've paid for is software, and the company can update it without customer consent at any time, then I can't rely on the product's features. Period. I experienced this myself on the PS4 version of Terraria. I bought a hard-copy of the game. I mastered the controls, and loved them. Terraria was updated one day…

I agree. Perhaps the U.S.'s legal framework reasonably allows this kind of behavior, but IMHO it's a sign that the framework needs legislative correction.

The first time I encountered this was when Sony advertised Linux-compatibility for the PS3, which I bought expressly for that purpose. I was shocked when a judge upheld Sony's post-sale removal of that capability.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#32

Post by cecilpl2 »

waffle_maniac wrote: post #12
JasonFruit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the article was about ergonomics or comfort, or about how to watch TV or read a book while on the treadmill. It was about buying a product that does certain things, and then having the company that made it change its functionality without your consent. The question is, should you or should you not have control of the products you buy?

Those interviewed in the article seemed to imply reading a book or watching TV was a grand pleasure. I'm disagreeing with that sentiment. I've found even a slight curve of my neck creates a lot of discomfort especially when running or walking.

> I've found even a slight curve of my neck creates a lot of discomfort especially when running or walking.

Just because you personally had this experience doesn't mean that everyone does.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#33

Post by johncessna »

dhimes wrote: post #4

If Nordic is being honest that the issue is safety- preventing users from diddling with their software and accidentally making it unsafe, then they can simply install a browser so the users can view what they wish online.

No they aren't being honest. Almost anything can be used in an unsafe manner if the desire to do so is there. Fundamentally you have a belt whipping around on two rollers at speeds upwards of 10 mph. It's an unsafe, if used improperly, machine to begin with.

The safety argument isn't so much an argument as it is a trigger word to elicit a response in people.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#34

Post by judge2020 »

dhimes wrote: post #4

If Nordic is being honest that the issue is safety- preventing users from diddling with their software and accidentally making it unsafe, then they can simply install a browser so the users can view what they wish online.

I imagine the same issues would be presented if they embedded chrome or webkit with how often both of those have RCEs.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#35

Post by CoastalCoder »

CountDrewku wrote: post #29

I don't understand this obsession with electronic exercise devices. The peloton, that stupid thing that mounts to the wall, treadmills etc. Outside is so much better than all of those. I will 100% run in single digit temperatures with snow on the ground before I touch a treadmill. If I have to be inside it's weight lifting.

Here's why I prefer electronic exercise devices:

- When my kids were younger, I was always nearby during a workout.

- I can comfortably work out regardless of the season, weather, or time of day.

- I can easily take a bathroom break mid-workout.

- I can do much longer workouts without getting bored, because I can watch movies or play video games during the workout. (E.g., using an exercise bike + my own computer.) This works around motivational / persistence issues I used to have.

- I can end a workout on short notice. Contrast to a long-distance run or bikeride, where I may be far from home when something comes up.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#36

Post by Jtsummers »

johncessna wrote: post #33
dhimes wrote: post #4

If Nordic is being honest that the issue is safety- preventing users from diddling with their software and accidentally making it unsafe, then they can simply install a browser so the users can view what they wish online.

No they aren't being honest. Almost anything can be used in an unsafe manner if the desire to do so is there. Fundamentally you have a belt whipping around on two rollers at speeds upwards of 10 mph. It's an unsafe, if used improperly, machine to begin with. The safety argument isn't so much an argument as it is a trigger word to elicit a response in people.

Frustratingly, the safety argument may win out. But it also reflects a poor design. What the people in the article seem to want is to be able to use an Android tablet as an Android tablet, they aren't dicking around with the safety-related parts. So the sensible (but often not done) thing to do would be to offer three modes. A "gym mode" suitable for most public equipment (just get into iFit or whatever it is), a "home mode" which permits installation and use of other apps (like Netflix), and an actual privileged mode that can get into the safety-related settings. 99.9% of people at home will be content with just that home mode level, and never care about anything beyond it.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#37

Post by judge2020 »

horsawlarway wrote: post #15
_fat_santa wrote: post #7

I really hate how we are moving more and more towards "managed experiences" in products. Used to, you would buy a product and use it how you see fit. But these days it seems that's not what the company wants you to do. You buy the product and enjoy a "managed" experience from the company. We see it everywhere with printers, coffee makers, phones, laptops, treadmills and even cars now. Everyone knows why this is being…

I've been thinking about this for a while, and my proposal is pretty simple: --- Legally - prohibit selling physical goods that contain digital locks unless the owner is given a key. Period. --- That's all you have to do. If I own the device, I get the keys for the physical locks, and the keys for the digital locks. I'm completely ok with manufacturers locking down computers for security, in much the same way that I…

How do you give the owner a key without enabling an evil maid attack? a physical usb device unique to the phone that will unlock it to run whatever when it's plugged in? something deep in settings that requires you do a dance and enter the konami code?

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#38

Post by treesknees »

The method to get into "God Mode" is the same, except now it prompts you for a code. Someone has figured out how to calculate it and actually created a website to generate codes for you.

http://getresponsecode.com

Apparently the algorithm is very simple according to Reddit https://old.reddit.com/r/nordictrack/comments/ozkp8v/privile...

>long responseCode = new Random((long) Integer.parseInt(iFitCode)).nextInt(999999);

It's not a perfect workaround, as it resets on the next boot, but I've seen that people are installing apps such as Taskbar which float overtop the iFit app and start on boot, allowing you to still launch your apps like Netflix etc even without God Mode enabled.

It's only a matter of time before Nordic decides to block this method as well. We should also be looking into how to block updates to these devices.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#39

Post by abeppu »

_fat_santa wrote: post #16
dhimes wrote: post #4

If Nordic is being honest that the issue is safety- preventing users from diddling with their software and accidentally making it unsafe, then they can simply install a browser so the users can view what they wish online.

From Nordic's POV, this is a safety issue, it affects the safety of their bottom line. Adding a browser would also compromise safety, again not the safety of the user but the safety of their bottom line.

But the first person interviewed was already a subscriber. They bought the hardware. They were paying for the content. He was making a pretty healthy contribution to their bottom line. Now that customer is alienated to the point of being interviewed for an article. I'm guessing they wouldn't recommend it to a friend or family. Taking away stuff from paying customers seems like a path towards not having recurring customers.

If it was just about the money, they should have e.g. have pop-up ads cover the screen only for non-subscribers, such that people aren't inclined to buy the device, not subscribe to the ifit content, and watch youtube instructors or whatever.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#40

Post by dmix »

gnabgib wrote: post #8

This is a couple of months old now, posted a few times.. not much discussion: [0] 8pts/1 comment [1] 15pts/1 comment [2] 5pts/0 comments [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29288525 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29292826 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29296501

Currently ranked #2 on HN, it happens.
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