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A delightful quirk of relativity theory

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Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#31

This would be more fun in a blog post. Twitter is a fucking horrible format for a complex analysis of special relativity. That aside, my favourite quirk from relativity is this: "The more you move in space, the less you move in time." Like relativity in general, it sounds simple enough, but it's consequences are profoundly shocking. (That is, if you take the time to understand it, and don't leap to the conclusion tha…

Well, another way of looking at it is that the observer is not the same as the decider.

So ultimately your reference frame is only current within the locus of your own mind and any decisions you make get broadcasted out to observers in the universe. They make their own decisions about where to be, how fast to be, and so on, and from their perspective it could be yesterday from when the decider decided, but its irrelevant just as much as being farther away in 3d space gives a longer delay in ping time.

Whether or not the decider has free will or not I don't think can be argued by this specific example.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#32

This would be more fun in a blog post. Twitter is a fucking horrible format for a complex analysis of special relativity. That aside, my favourite quirk from relativity is this: "The more you move in space, the less you move in time." Like relativity in general, it sounds simple enough, but it's consequences are profoundly shocking. (That is, if you take the time to understand it, and don't leap to the conclusion tha…

Wouldn't all that matters here be their relative velocities to Andromeda, and not to each other? And relative to Andromeda, the person in the car might actually be going slower.

Separately, I don't think chronology is broken. It's ok that there is predestination because there is no way for actions taken here to propagate back there in time to change things. If a change does somehow propagate back through a wormhole or something, it's all good, just spinning up another dimension probably...

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#33
The description of relativistic movement by hyperbolic rotations is really neat. One way I like to think of it is that moving with respect to some other observer puts you into a different "world", where the x and t axes are rotated towards each other. You can see from the diagrams that for example different events happen in different orders in both "worlds". And this is not just due to signal propagation, but there really is no "true" ordering if the events are sufficiently separated.

Bit there is one thing I never understood, even though I have a PhD in physics. Why does relative movement put you into a different "world"? Or more precise, why does relative movement correspond to a lorentz boost? That is not a piori neccessary. A stupid example is a laser pointed to the moon. If you flick it quickly, the spot can move faster than light over the ground. But you can also imagine mass moving independent of boost. You have a rock at x=0, t=0. At t=1, cut it and paste it at x=1. At t=2, cut it and paste it at x=2. Now make the time steps infintely small. It is moving (in the sense of dx/dy>0) but not moving (in the sense of v or ß = 0).

My intuition is, if you look at electromagnetism, it takes some time for a changing electric field to create a magnetic field, and for the magnetic field to create an electric field. This is what Einstein meant when he said, time exists so that not everything happens at once. If you think of a relatively moving object - and I'm thinking of it completely in terms of EM for the sake of simplicity - what happens is that the fields are propagating. One field creates the next field not at the same space but slightly in front. So the whole thing is rotated towards the x axis. The "time" vector does not point completely in the time direction, but in the space direction. This gives you time dilation as well as the subjective experience of an intertial frame (because you are just moving forwards in time, but not in space from your POV). I think this microscopic perspective shows why motion must == boost. But does anybody here know if there is a canonical answer to this question?

Edit: I just realize this is basically electromagnetism of moving bodies which Einstein already solved in 1905 :-) but I still find it hard to wrap my head around

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#35
It is interesting that "real" observations of relativistic objects are quite different from what you expect them to be. For example, a cube passing by at relativistic speed would appear as if it is rotating towards you. This allows you to see some of its sides which you normally wouldn't [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_rotation

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#36
post #12
post #4

I love the name of the scientist Al Unapietra. The thing is very well explained, but it's very sad to see it as a twitter thread, which is a mostly unreadable format.

Twitter threads don’t bother me. The brain quickly adapts to skipping the irrelevant parts (username, like buttons, etc) and to expecting the cadency of tweets. I believe it is harder to write (due to the character limit of each text block), but, far from “unreadable”, I can read it fairly easily.

Personally i think a lot of people do threads because it's easier to write. Also you can take days or weeks of writing threads in public, updating them with new information, without appearing to do "stealth" edits, or adding "Update :" to each added section.

For readers twitter threads are pretty crap tho, that's why I really like to use thread reader app.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#37

This would be more fun in a blog post. Twitter is a fucking horrible format for a complex analysis of special relativity. That aside, my favourite quirk from relativity is this: "The more you move in space, the less you move in time." Like relativity in general, it sounds simple enough, but it's consequences are profoundly shocking. (That is, if you take the time to understand it, and don't leap to the conclusion tha…

At least when you think of objects moving slower than light there can't be reversing of casuality. But relativity allows for that, we just drop the faster than light solutions usually as non-physical.

Recently there's been an interesting paper about what happens when we don't drop these solutions: https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.02780

Imagine the Andromeda fleet can move faster than light. When you look at it from Earth POV suddenly it manifests near Earth out of nothing. Looks very similar to quantum mechanics indeterminism - if alien general decided to send the fleet it's there, if he didn't - it's not there, and there's no local cause for it appearing suddenly.

What the paper above explores is - starting from relativity including faster-than-light objects and trying to prevent paradoxes they derive quantum mechanics.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#39

This would be more fun in a blog post. Twitter is a fucking horrible format for a complex analysis of special relativity. That aside, my favourite quirk from relativity is this: "The more you move in space, the less you move in time." Like relativity in general, it sounds simple enough, but it's consequences are profoundly shocking. (That is, if you take the time to understand it, and don't leap to the conclusion tha…

> "The more you move in space, the less you move in time."

Even better IMO: everything is moving at the max speed (c) through spacetime, and accelerating along one dimension means decelerating along other dimensions; for example, stationary objects have 0 speed in spatial dimensions but move at c through time, and photons move at c through space but are stationary along the time dimension.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#40

This would be more fun in a blog post. Twitter is a fucking horrible format for a complex analysis of special relativity. That aside, my favourite quirk from relativity is this: "The more you move in space, the less you move in time." Like relativity in general, it sounds simple enough, but it's consequences are profoundly shocking. (That is, if you take the time to understand it, and don't leap to the conclusion tha…

Both observers are just seeing what already happened millions of miles away. Though they see the alien fleet arriving at different times, it's not possible that the aliens are doing different things in different reference frames. They made one decision and then the two people see the results of that decision at different times
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